Two things from my concerns of being positive for the graduation. One, the email list is a place to talk, and ASF does not always request a vote, this is not how we do things.
Two, PPMC is being measured as a high authority, which may be too high. The following and similar replies show up in this thread, I am not sure whether this is a language issue, but this kind of speaking in public(the dev mail list is public), is a kind of Dictatorship, that conflicts with ASF culture. ``` > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC. For me, this suggestion is unacceptable. What the community needs most is fairness, but to do so would create a certain unfairness. ``` I don't plan to force PPMC to accept how to select PMC members, but how they see PMC members, as a higher hierarchy structure for others. I am not feeling well. This is not the first time I mentioned this concern. At ASF, to be a committer is mostly about credit and trust, mostly. PMC members only mean to have more responsibility to take actions on CVE, release, etc. None of these is not about authoritative. Sheng Wu 吴晟 Twitter, wusheng1108 Xuanwo <[email protected]> 于2023年11月29日周三 23:18写道： > > I suggest initiating a vote at [email protected] regarding the proposed consensus and > encourage everyone to participate. All PPMC members must cast their votes, > while committers are welcome to leave comments. > > We can make sure all PPMC members presents their ideas on this consensus in > this way. > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:06, tison wrote: > >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything. > >> I am curious, why? > > > > I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the > > graduation discussion and moving forward tasks. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > Sheng Wu <[email protected]> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道： > >> > >> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important > >> thing. > >> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking > >> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors. > >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything. > >> I am curious, why? > >> > >> Sheng Wu 吴晟 > >> Twitter, wusheng1108 > >> > >> Xuanwo <[email protected]> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道： > >> > > >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic > >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers > >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure. > >> > > >> > I'm ok with this. > >> > > >> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote: > >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic > >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers > >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure. > >> > > > >> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation. > >> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our > >> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired. > >> > > > >> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement. > >> > > > >> > > Best, > >> > > tison. > >> > > > >> > > Chojan Shang <[email protected]> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道： > >> > >> > >> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective. > >> > >> > >> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, > >> > >> recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting > >> > >> committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize > >> > >> their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project > >> > >> governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a > >> > >> culture of collaboration. > >> > >> > >> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a > >> > >> TLP. > >> > >> > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> PsiACE > >> > >> > >> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote: > >> > >> > Hi, > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement > >> > >> > on the > >> > >> > members of the PMC[1]. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. > >> > >> > All > >> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in > >> > >> > the TLP > >> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Best, > >> > >> > tison. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616 > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Xuanwo > > -- > Xuanwo
