Without responding to this, let’s clarify what emails are we talking about:
- Jenkins build notifications: failures / successes, - Jira notifications: Created, Updated, Status change, Commented, etc. - Github notifications: opened/closed pull request, commented on pull request, etc. Researching a bit around it seems like that issues@ mailing list is a common pattern across some Hadoop projects: https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html <https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html> https://kafka.apache.org/contact <https://kafka.apache.org/contact> But not on: https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html <https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html> Regards, Andor > On 2019. May 13., at 16:43, Patrick Hunt <[email protected]> wrote: > > I seem to remember that in the early days of apache the intent was for all > developers to participate in development of the project. MLs were used for > this initially and there has been concern in the past about the move to > JIRA as it removes critical discussions from the general dev flow. JIRA > discussions are cc'd to an ML for just this reason. Granted another aspect > of this mirroring is for archival purposes. > > As such the intent is for developers to participate in development > discussion. It sounds like you're turning this on it's head. > > Isn't this why we have a user list? For folks that are only casually > interested in project activity? > > Patrick > > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:31 AM Andor Molnar <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Sorry for starting the vote too early, for some reason I thought it’s a >> straightforward thing, but the concerns are valid. >> >> I believe this is a good thing to do now, because the activity in >> ZooKeeper community has reached a level which the dev list with all >> notifications included hasn’t been prepared for. I see emails every now and >> then from people who fed up with the flood of notification emails and >> decide to unsubscribe instead of taking the hassle of dealing with email >> filters. >> >> *Filters* >> Pretty much everything which can be done with separate mailing lists, can >> be achieved by some clever email filters too. Though I think having >> multiple mailing lists is technologically a better distinction for emails: >> separate archives, different retention policies, less email to be delivered >> (filters working on client side) and more convenient for new subscribers. >> >> *Markmail* >> I’m a power user of markmail too, but I’m not sure how it works. Tbh I >> cannot see the benefits of searching for automated emails from Gitbox, but >> I’m sure we can set it up properly, if needed. >> >> *Existing users* >> It’s completely valid that on the flip side we’ll mess up the config of >> existing users. I don’t we can avoid that or do this in a backward >> compatible way, but I think it’s worth to pay this price. What will happen >> to them? >> - Stop receiving emails from Jira and Github, >> - Get the announcement on the dev list: hey, from now on you need to >> subscribe from [email protected] if you want to be notified about A and [email protected] >> if you want to be notified about B, etc. >> I don’t think we can automatically subscribe them for the new lists, it >> sounds like against the law (GDPR?), but I’m not a lawyer. >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Regards, >> Andor >> >> >> >>> On 2019. May 13., at 9:25, Norbert Kalmar <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Well, +1 (non-binding) from my side (if it wasn't clear from my email ). >>> I agree that anyone following the dev list will have a chance to sign-up >>> for the new list, basically that's all old users have to do. Maybe >>> delete/modify some filters. >>> And anyone "semi-following" the ZK thread, I figure doing nothing (not >>> signing up for the new list) is fine, as they are mostly interested in >> user >>> emails, votes etc., and those email will remain in the current list. >>> >>> But of course I can only speak for myself, and this sounds like a good >> idea >>> to me. >>> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:31 PM Lars Francke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> re: existing users >>>> I'd expect they read this mailing list, and if they do they should see >> the >>>> announcement that things change and need to re-subscribe, if they don't >>>> follow the list anyway then...well nothing really lost. >>>> I understand the concern but I'm afraid there's nothing we can do >> there. I >>>> don't think it's trivial to automatically subscribe people to a new >> list, >>>> we'd need to ask INFRA if it's even possible. >>>> >>>> re: new users: Yes, as a new subscriber it's definitely VERY >> overwhelming >>>> (especially the gitbox mails) and it's also nowadays almost unexpected >>>> because most other projects (at least the ones I follow) have the >>>> separation of mailing lists already >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:28 PM Norbert Kalmar >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree we have a lot of "noise", as others, I have created the filters >>>> and >>>>> since forgot about them. >>>>> But it is overwhelming for a new subscriber, and filters always carry >> the >>>>> dangers of false positive filtering. i.e. filter out someone's email. >>>>> I think someone joining the dev-zookeeper mailing list is always a good >>>>> thing, and we shouldn't scare them away :) >>>>> For the existing users, I guess they would have to sign up for the new >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> It would be nice, but I'm not even sure of all the dependent stuff >>>> (Patrick >>>>> just mentioned marmail for example). >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Norbert >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:06 AM Lars Francke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, I didn't mean to comment on the tracking sites in the VOTE >>>> thread. >>>>>> That belongs here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Either way: Markmail etc. shouldn't be broken. Yes, they may take a >>>> while >>>>>> before they index stuff but the "canonical" tracking site is >>>>>> https://lists.apache.org and that indexes new stuff automatically >>>>> anwyay. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:55 AM Lars Francke <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm subscribed to around 40-60 Apache Mailing lists. If the >>>>> notifications >>>>>>> were in a separate list I could just subscribe to what I want instead >>>>> of >>>>>>> creating 80 or so filters. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I disagree, I don't have to create filters if the dev list >>>> only >>>>>>> contains "discussions". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Lars >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:38 AM Patrick Hunt <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You're going to have to have a filter regardless. Why change now? >>>>> Also, >>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you do change it, be sure to update all of the tracking sites such >>>> as >>>>>>>> markmail (etc...), I find this invaluable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:18 AM Lars Francke < >>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> INFRA can do it all :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> See for example this: >>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17915> for Jira >>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18296> for Github >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The necessary mailing lists can be created here < >>>>>>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd be happy to file the issues myself but it's better if it comes >>>>>> from >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> PMC member. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Lars >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:00 AM Andor Molnar >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Lars, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the hands, yes, indeed we are interested! >>>>>>>>>> Currently I'm using all kind of magic filters to separate signal >>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> noise. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What do we need to do? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Andor >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:51 AM Lars Francke < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've recently subscribed to the dev mailinglist but am >>>>> overwhelmed >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> number of github notifications and about to unsubscribe again. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But maybe you're interested in moving the github & jira >>>>>>>> notifications >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> different mailing list? I did a quick search for on the >>>> mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>> archives but couldn't find another thread about it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The way we've done it at the Apache Training project now for >>>>>>>> example is >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> send all Github notifications to notifications@ and all Jira >>>>>>>> messages >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> issues@ we only send Jira open and close mails to dev@ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This lowers the volume significantly and works just fine. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is this something you'd be interested in? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Lars >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >>
