I already submitted a pull request yesterday. Only on mobile, don't have the link right now.
On Thu, May 30, 2019, 18:32 Andor Molnar <[email protected]> wrote: > Would somebody please update the Mailing Lists page on the website: > > https://zookeeper.apache.org/lists.html < > https://zookeeper.apache.org/lists.html> > > Thanks, > Andor > > > > > On 2019. May 23., at 16:24, Patrick Hunt <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Nope. > > > > Regards, > > > > Patrick > > > > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 1:35 AM Lars Francke <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Me neither. I'm happy to keep the vote open a bit longer, we're in no > rush. > >> > >> Patrick, do you have anything to add? > >> > >> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 1:15 PM Andor Molnar <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I’m not sure whether we have convinced Patrick entirely. > >>> Before casting my vote, I’d be happy if we could reach consensus in the > >>> community with this change, not just majority. > >>> > >>> Reason is that I rather feel it a nice-to-have improvement, not > critical. > >>> > >>> Andor > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 2019. May 17., at 17:05, Flavio Junqueira <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> To add to this conversation, we have 5 mailing lists as of today: > >>>> > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> The commits@ one was historically supposed to be for notifications. > >>>> > >>>> -Flavio > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 17 May 2019, at 16:50, Lars Francke <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Alright, I will do so, thank you > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM Norbert Kalmar > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I think we should start a vote. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lars, feel free to start it, as it is your initiative, you can place > >>> your > >>>>>> argument in the initial email. > >>>>>> Thanks for bringing this up! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> Norbert > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:38 AM Lars Francke < > >> [email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't really have anything else to add to this conversation. I > >> agree > >>>>>> with > >>>>>>> Norbert & Andor. > >>>>>>> Separating the lists is (slowly) becoming the standard at the ASF > in > >>> the > >>>>>>> projects I participate in and it makes it easier for newcomers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Do we want to put this to a vote or abandon this? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:33 PM Andor Molnar <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Without responding to this, let’s clarify what emails are we > >> talking > >>>>>>> about: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Jenkins build notifications: failures / successes, > >>>>>>>> - Jira notifications: Created, Updated, Status change, Commented, > >>> etc. > >>>>>>>> - Github notifications: opened/closed pull request, commented on > >> pull > >>>>>>>> request, etc. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Researching a bit around it seems like that issues@ mailing list > >> is > >>> a > >>>>>>>> common pattern across some Hadoop projects: > >>>>>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html < > >>>>>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html> > >>>>>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html < > >>>>>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html> > >>>>>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/contact < > https://kafka.apache.org/contact > >>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> But not on: > >>>>>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html < > >>>>>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html> > >>>>>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html < > >>>>>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>> Andor > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 16:43, Patrick Hunt <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I seem to remember that in the early days of apache the intent > was > >>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> all > >>>>>>>>> developers to participate in development of the project. MLs were > >>>>>> used > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> this initially and there has been concern in the past about the > >> move > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> JIRA as it removes critical discussions from the general dev > flow. > >>>>>> JIRA > >>>>>>>>> discussions are cc'd to an ML for just this reason. Granted > >> another > >>>>>>>> aspect > >>>>>>>>> of this mirroring is for archival purposes. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> As such the intent is for developers to participate in > development > >>>>>>>>> discussion. It sounds like you're turning this on it's head. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Isn't this why we have a user list? For folks that are only > >> casually > >>>>>>>>> interested in project activity? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Patrick > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:31 AM Andor Molnar <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for starting the vote too early, for some reason I thought > >>>>>> it’s > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> straightforward thing, but the concerns are valid. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I believe this is a good thing to do now, because the activity > in > >>>>>>>>>> ZooKeeper community has reached a level which the dev list with > >> all > >>>>>>>>>> notifications included hasn’t been prepared for. I see emails > >> every > >>>>>>> now > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> then from people who fed up with the flood of notification > emails > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> decide to unsubscribe instead of taking the hassle of dealing > >> with > >>>>>>> email > >>>>>>>>>> filters. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> *Filters* > >>>>>>>>>> Pretty much everything which can be done with separate mailing > >>>>>> lists, > >>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>> be achieved by some clever email filters too. Though I think > >> having > >>>>>>>>>> multiple mailing lists is technologically a better distinction > >> for > >>>>>>>> emails: > >>>>>>>>>> separate archives, different retention policies, less email to > be > >>>>>>>> delivered > >>>>>>>>>> (filters working on client side) and more convenient for new > >>>>>>>> subscribers. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> *Markmail* > >>>>>>>>>> I’m a power user of markmail too, but I’m not sure how it works. > >>>>>> Tbh I > >>>>>>>>>> cannot see the benefits of searching for automated emails from > >>>>>> Gitbox, > >>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>> I’m sure we can set it up properly, if needed. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> *Existing users* > >>>>>>>>>> It’s completely valid that on the flip side we’ll mess up the > >>> config > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> existing users. I don’t we can avoid that or do this in a > >> backward > >>>>>>>>>> compatible way, but I think it’s worth to pay this price. What > >> will > >>>>>>>> happen > >>>>>>>>>> to them? > >>>>>>>>>> - Stop receiving emails from Jira and Github, > >>>>>>>>>> - Get the announcement on the dev list: hey, from now on you > need > >>> to > >>>>>>>>>> subscribe from [email protected] if you want to be notified about A and > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> if you want to be notified about B, etc. > >>>>>>>>>> I don’t think we can automatically subscribe them for the new > >>> lists, > >>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>> sounds like against the law (GDPR?), but I’m not a lawyer. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>> Andor > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 9:25, Norbert Kalmar > >>>>>>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, +1 (non-binding) from my side (if it wasn't clear from my > >>>>>> email > >>>>>>>> ). > >>>>>>>>>>> I agree that anyone following the dev list will have a chance > to > >>>>>>>> sign-up > >>>>>>>>>>> for the new list, basically that's all old users have to do. > >> Maybe > >>>>>>>>>>> delete/modify some filters. > >>>>>>>>>>> And anyone "semi-following" the ZK thread, I figure doing > >> nothing > >>>>>>> (not > >>>>>>>>>>> signing up for the new list) is fine, as they are mostly > >>> interested > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> user > >>>>>>>>>>> emails, votes etc., and those email will remain in the current > >>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> But of course I can only speak for myself, and this sounds like > >> a > >>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>>>> idea > >>>>>>>>>>> to me. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:31 PM Lars Francke < > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> re: existing users > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd expect they read this mailing list, and if they do they > >>> should > >>>>>>> see > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> announcement that things change and need to re-subscribe, if > >> they > >>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>>>>> follow the list anyway then...well nothing really lost. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I understand the concern but I'm afraid there's nothing we can > >> do > >>>>>>>>>> there. I > >>>>>>>>>>>> don't think it's trivial to automatically subscribe people to > a > >>>>>> new > >>>>>>>>>> list, > >>>>>>>>>>>> we'd need to ask INFRA if it's even possible. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> re: new users: Yes, as a new subscriber it's definitely VERY > >>>>>>>>>> overwhelming > >>>>>>>>>>>> (especially the gitbox mails) and it's also nowadays almost > >>>>>>> unexpected > >>>>>>>>>>>> because most other projects (at least the ones I follow) have > >> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> separation of mailing lists already > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:28 PM Norbert Kalmar > >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree we have a lot of "noise", as others, I have created > >> the > >>>>>>>> filters > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> since forgot about them. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> But it is overwhelming for a new subscriber, and filters > >> always > >>>>>>> carry > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> dangers of false positive filtering. i.e. filter out > someone's > >>>>>>> email. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think someone joining the dev-zookeeper mailing list is > >> always > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing, and we shouldn't scare them away :) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the existing users, I guess they would have to sign up > for > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> new > >>>>>>>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice, but I'm not even sure of all the dependent > >>>>>> stuff > >>>>>>>>>>>> (Patrick > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just mentioned marmail for example). > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Norbert > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:06 AM Lars Francke < > >>>>>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I didn't mean to comment on the tracking sites in the > >>>>>> VOTE > >>>>>>>>>>>> thread. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That belongs here. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way: Markmail etc. shouldn't be broken. Yes, they may > >>>>>> take > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> while > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they index stuff but the "canonical" tracking site is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org and that indexes new stuff > >>>>>> automatically > >>>>>>>>>>>>> anwyay. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:55 AM Lars Francke < > >>>>>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm subscribed to around 40-60 Apache Mailing lists. If the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were in a separate list I could just subscribe to what I > >> want > >>>>>>>> instead > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating 80 or so filters. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I disagree, I don't have to create filters if the > >> dev > >>>>>>> list > >>>>>>>>>>>> only > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains "discussions". > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:38 AM Patrick Hunt < > >>>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're going to have to have a filter regardless. Why > >> change > >>>>>>> now? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you do change it, be sure to update all of the tracking > >> sites > >>>>>>> such > >>>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markmail (etc...), I find this invaluable. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:18 AM Lars Francke < > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INFRA can do it all :) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See for example this: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17915> for > >>> Jira > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18296> for > >>>>>> Github > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The necessary mailing lists can be created here < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be happy to file the issues myself but it's better if > >> it > >>>>>>>> comes > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC member. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:00 AM Andor Molnar > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lars, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the hands, yes, indeed we are interested! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I'm using all kind of magic filters to > separate > >>>>>>> signal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we need to do? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andor > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:51 AM Lars Francke < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've recently subscribed to the dev mailinglist but am > >>>>>>>>>>>>> overwhelmed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of github notifications and about to unsubscribe > >>>>>>> again. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But maybe you're interested in moving the github & jira > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different mailing list? I did a quick search for on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> mailing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives but couldn't find another thread about it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The way we've done it at the Apache Training project > now > >>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send all Github notifications to notifications@ and > all > >>>>>> Jira > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues@ we only send Jira open and close mails to dev@ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This lowers the volume significantly and works just > >> fine. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this something you'd be interested in? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >
