Not as happy though, Right? Seems to be a slow decline. I was told I would
be included in a referral program but have not seen a single sale from this.
Seems we have not ever been referred for defunct sites ;o(


--
Mike Allen, 4CheapDomains.Net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.4CheapDomains.Net
Need Advertising? Try DeerSearch.Com http://www.DeerSearch.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Landman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ryan Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Peter Kiem" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "OpenSRS Discuss
List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Future of Tucows/OpenSRS


> I see your point, but we have had a very similir case with Covad.
>
> Short Story Like this:
> First we were part of their partner page
> Then they removed us leaving only the big boys.
> Thenthey told us "Sorry we dont wnat to partner with you directly, you
> have to go partner with our other partners".  This was after we had bought
> $20,000+ equipment and had new backbone connections with them ordered.
>
> How long will it take OpenSRS to push us back?  It's not bieng as "open"
> as it once was.
>
> That bieng said we are still happy using OpenSRS.
>
> --
> Walter L
>
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Ryan Thompson wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't mean to pick on you specifically, Peter, but to raise and echo
> > some important points about our experience as an OpenSRS reseller,
> > since early 2000.
> >
> > Let my reply ring true... or at least honest. :-)
> >
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > Peter Kiem wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> > > I read Chuck's statements in that OpenSRS used to be about providing
> > > a fair and equal basis for resellers to make a business, or augment
> > > their business, with domain name registrations.
> >
> > Yes, and I think, OpenSRS still provides this.
> >
> > "Fair" has implications that are extremely relative in nature. "Fair"
> > to you may not be "fair" to me, to OpenSRS, or some of the large
> > resellers that seem to be dominating the referral list. This is why
> > "they" say "life" isn't fair. "Their" interests conflict.
> >
> > That being said, OpenSRS is "augment[ing]" my business to the tune of
> > nearly 25% of gross revenue... and domain registration has never been
> > anywhere near the front lines of our marketing or retention
> > strategies. The really *good* part is the majority of domain customers
> > also host with us, and we've had excellent luck when converting
> > "domain-only" customers to domain and hosting customers.
> >
> > "Customers" is the word of the day. Be "fair" to *them*, and you will
> > really go places. I've travelled more in the past twelve months on
> > business than I did in the last twelve years. I could have farmed out
> > the work, but I needed to get out more, anyway. :-)
> >
> > > Dubious practices by other registrars were not followed by OpenSRS
> > > even though that could have increased revenue.  "Right" was given
> > > more priority than "$$$".
> >
> > And still is, in my opinion. OpenSRS has consistently demonstrated
> > their dedication to their customers, regardless of statistics.
> > Software is updated constantly. Reseller updates are timely. Downtime
> > is minimized. Wholesale prices remain profitable (for "us" *and*
> > "them". If OpenSRS couldn't turn a profit, there's no way we would
> > have been a reseller for nearly three years!). Read below.
> >
> > > Nowadays, OpenSRS seems to be favouring the resellers that bring in
> > > more "$$$" than the smaller ones and providing an equal playing
> > > field for all the resellers.
> >
> > Aha! Now we've reached the sticking point. You seem to point to
> > *undue* favoritism of the major breadwinners. Isn't it really a
> > question of relativity, though? If I register 400 domain years/month,
> > and another reseller registers 4,000, would I expect to receive, in
> > absolute terms, as much support/recognition/profit as they? I don't
> > think so. At least, not if you've been in business, and wish to stay
> > in business, for a significant length of time. Many business models
> > are (rightly) built around the premise of mutual reward. It simply
> > isn't profitable to devote 90% of your support/marketing efforts to
> > 10% of your sales.
> >
> > HOWEVER.. I think the real question is one of privacy and ethics.
> > Nobody wants to admit that they aren't selling as much as <Reseller
> > X>, which is the reason they aren't on the list, or aren't as highly
> > ranked. When this whole debate started months ago, I hit Tucows'
> > server with a few hundred requests to determine who was on the list,
> > and what percentage of the time their listing was ranked first. It was
> > really quite easy. The list was quite small (we weren't on it);
> > certainly not the "thousands" that Elliot mentions, or even "dozens".
> > I wouldn't want to have to explain to a client or potential client
> > that we didn't make the list because we can't compete in volume with
> > <another local reseller>.
> >
> > So, I think that the referral list, in its current form, is not
> > unfair, because it reflects service levels established with the
> > clients who best reward Tucows. HOWEVER, I *do* think that it is
> > unethical. I certainly did not join Tucows to be placed into a ranking
> > system that *publically* exerts the sales impact of one reseller over
> > another. At least, it wasn't in the agreement that *I* signed.
> >
> > > In the technical arena OpenSRS has grown considerably
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > > but their management is seeming more and more distant
> > > from us each month.
> >
> > I don't know about *that*. I have always been able to get reasonably
> > quick resolution to any problem that has come up. For a time, SaskNow
> > essentially had a dedicated support rep, who helped us through the
> > *many* policy headaches with CIRA (for all you .ca folks out there),
> > and personally saved us the *thousands* of dollars we would have spent
> > in development, staffing, and communication with CIRA to become an
> > independent registrar.
> >
> > To more directly address your point, why do you think you *should* be
> > close to management? I will agree that I greatly admire Tucows'
> > management for their willingness to roll up sleeves and interact
> > directly with resellers. I also understand, from my own experience,
> > that management can't (and shouldn't) do everything. That's what
> > qualified employees are for.
> >
> > Elliot is bang on the mark when he says that if he acted alone, it
> > would be very difficult to keep employees. Been there, done that,
> > signed the layoff notices (in my dark and fettered past :-). Retaining
> > the services of an army of well-qualified employees, and then ignoring
> > them, makes for gross abuse of payroll expense. What I couldn't do
> > with 10% of that. :-) Management might be outwardly great for PR, but
> > don't forget their most imporant purpose.  They are there, in large
> > part, to ensure that the "little guys" on the support lines are able
> > to help *you* get *your* job done every day.
> >
> > > > in the near future. Until then, PLEASE feel free to keep raising
> > > > it, complaining about it and jumping on our heads in general just
> > > > please don't feel we are ignoring your comments. Again, we may not
> > > > always agree but the comments are never ignored.
> > >
> > > In the referrals list you DO have resellers telling you outright, WE
> > > DONT LIKE THE WAY YOU DO THIS.  What do we hear back?  Silence....
> >
> > Hardly. Why don't you email Verisign and ask them for a higher ranking
> > on *their* referral list? ;-) Sorry, don't mean to be flippant, but
> > the fact is, Tucows has looked after my company better than nearly any
> > supplier we've had, including pivotal, but much smaller suppliers,
> > local to our region.
> >
> > In my experience, when Tucows says they're working on something,
> > THEY'RE WORKING ON SOMETHING. Priorities don't always line up with
> > what you *think* should happen (and when), but the bottom line is,
> > Tucows has enough smart people in their employ to know how to run a
> > profitable enterprise. And, given the fact that their profitable
> > enterprise is based largely on the reseller model, reseller profits =
> > Tucows profits = reseller profits, which implies that Tucows' best
> > interest is looking after their resellers. Tucows knows this.
> >
> > If they don't hold to that mandate, then I suspect it won't be long
> > before there are a lot of OpenSRS employees sending us resumes, and a
> > lot of OpenSRS resellers "focusing on other areas" of their
> > businesses.
> >
> > > > Today is the 3rd birthday of OpenSRS (born January 12, 2000) so to
> > > > all of you I raise a glass tonight.
> >
> > Elliot, I'm with you on that, though it's now the 13th here. :-)
> >
> > > > Thanks to all of you for allowing us to do what we do. We hope, I
> > > > hope, that you always care enough about this and about us to raise
> > > > these issues.
> > >
> > > Please consider our pleas about the referrals list and SHOW us you
> > > care about the reseller base that has allowed you to do what you do.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > I think Tucows does care about its reseller base. I also think that
> > their treatment of the referral list could be better handled. Given my
> > comments about "fairness", above, I think there is only one "fair"
> > solution. Trash the referral list, and replace it with a randomly
> > ordered Certified Reseller list. Or trash that, and stick with the
> > button program for recognition.
> >
> > Whatever the case, it would take a *lot* of flak for us to even
> > *think* about moving our registration services to another reseller
> > model. Tucows has brough profit to our business. Our lack of placement
> > on the reseller list has cost us nothing. Thus, I've said
> > comparatively little about it.
> >
> > Look at the bottom line, though, people. Are you willing to pay
> > another $1 per domain year for a "fair" referral system (or did you
> > expect Tucows to do everything for free)? I'd personally rather spend
> > $1,000/month on a good marketing campaign that I know will turn a
> > profit in 5-6 months. Random referrals? Not worth very much to us.
> >
> > Everyone: (Tucows and resellers): Stick to basics. What is your core
> > competency? If you don't know, think fast! I would submit that any
> > reseller whose survivial depends on links from a supplier's web site
> > should give serious thought to their business model.
> >
> > - Ryan
> >
> > --
> >   Ryan Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >   SaskNow Technologies - http://www.sasknow.com
> >   901-1st Avenue North - Saskatoon, SK - S7K 1Y4
> >
> >         Tel: 306-664-3600   Fax: 306-244-7037   Saskatoon
> >   Toll-Free: 877-727-5669     (877-SASKNOW)     North America
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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