Shaun,
I understand what it feels like to be frustrated about a purchase that you
made but cannot use. Clearly, you must have been aware that Pro Tools is not
yet accessible with VoiceOver, right? I trust no one mislead you into
thinking such a thing.
Now, let me shed some light on something you missed regarding Pro Tools and
Windows. You're probably a JAWS user and it's true that JAWS just doesn't do
well with Pro Tools. We've exhausted that possibility with expert scripters.
Thing is, Window Eyes works very well with Pro Tools, perhaps even better
than outSPOKEN. So don't feel so bad when it comes to not being able to
access your son's Pro Tools system. You can run it on an Intel Mac with Boot
Camp and Window Eyes, if you care to learn a new screen reader. The reason
why we undertook the Mac route of things is that it's the defacto choice
among studios and schools throughout the world. I'd rather be using PT on a
Mac than on Windows, simply put, and, if I'm going to be called upon to halp
newcomers to blind Pro Tools access, as I have for years, I'd rather be
doing it on the platform that most people are using.
You seem to think that Rick and I are some kind of Digidesign apologists and
that we don't seem to want to change the status quo. I have no idea why you
might have such an absurd notion. The whole reason why we've spent loads of
time and money out of our own pockets is to make a change. Don't you think
that we want to see Pro Tools accessible? Of course, you must, don't you?
Don't you realize we want this to happen because it affects our very
livelihood? Of course it does. Thing is, rather than inquiring and asking
whether there's some way to help, you go and bypass the people who've
invested themselves into trying to building a productive relationship with a
developer. You make it sound like nothing has happened in 16 years and that
couldn't be further from the truth. You make it sound like you can rap this
whole thing up in one neat lawsuit in five years. We've only begun to work
with Digidesign and you're coming in, guns blazing and you're going to
undermine what we've worked hard to develop.
Go ahead, Shaun. Thanks for having a little respect for those who have come
before you. Don't be surprised, however, if, a few years from now, some
other hot head comes along and criticizes your approach and blows right past
you and says implies that your approach is full of hot air and they can rap
this whole thing up better and faster. Oh yeah, before you can understand
that, you'll need to spend countless hours helping blind musicians,
students, engineers to learn how to use a screen reader effectively and how
to use an incredibly complex piece of software, how to configure their
interface, control surface, etc. Then you'll have to spend thousands of
dollars out of your own pocket on flights, hotel when flying to meetings.
Then throw in the time and money to develop and maintain a web site or two
dedicated to the the issue of being a blind Pro Tools user and the work
toward making Pro Tools accessible. Build up some relationships for a couple
of years first. Now let's bring in the person who says, "You're making
excuses and and I'm calling it when I see it." Well, then, maybe you'd
understand what some of us might be feeling. Well, you've already bought
your $15,000 Pro Tools system so, I suppose you're already on your way.
Don't feel too bad -- I spent $25,000 on mine. but then again, that's a
fraction of what I've invested in the entire studio os... go figure. I
shouldn't be so sensitive, eh?
Nobody wants an enemy here, Shaun. Yeah, let's be friends, sure. Nobody can
stop you from going straight to Digidesign just like we did. You have the
right as a consumer to do so. Although we organized a public petition, I
suppose it doesn't hurt for them to see how passionately people feel about
the issue. Go ahead and knock yourself out. Who knows, maybe you'll have
phenomenal results. If you need any help, I'm here for you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
Look lets be friends again. Sorry for imposing my views on others. I know
it may be available on Leopard soon, but the question is when will it be
accessible. Clearly you can't answer that and so far no one on this list
can. I am possibly upset because a $15,422.56 purchase of Pro Tools and
various add ons were made for my son and there isn't any accessibility
built in for Windows or Tiger. You are right, I don't know what you are
using and for that statement I apologize. You have to come up with a
better argument than just my grammar. LOL Listen it is clear that we
operate on two sides of the fence and we can't agree so lets agree to
disagree. Josh I shouldn't have made the statement to you in that way
either. I have contacted the makers of Pro Tools and will set up a
meeting to discuss what is needed to make it accessible. Again I
apologize for my wording and actions. I will bow out of this one and
crusade to talking with people that believe in actions and results rather
than e-mails and excuses.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Slau wrote:
Actually, Shaun, it'll only be a couple of months before it's Leopard
compatible. voiceOver compatibility is another issue.
Incidentally, I hope, for your sake, that when you communicate with
developers, you check your grammar. If you don't know what I'm talking
about, read your message below.
For your information, I'm not using any equipment that is out of date.
You don't know the first thing about what I use so, again, get facts
straight before you spew.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X
by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
I was actually being sarcastic. It doesn't work on Tiger for blind
people and that has been out for 3 years, so I know durn well it
doesn't work on Leopard. Seeing the rate of progression I would hope
it isn't a matter of 16 years before it is Leopard compatible. I know
you have had and is still using it for years using the Mac and
Outspoken. The thing is that you are still using it now with outdated
equipment and software that isn't in production. Did you get those
facts or did they go over your head?
On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:11 PM, Slau wrote:
Shaun,
When you say things like, "Never the less I will wait 16 years for it
to work on Leopard," you probably don't realize how disjointed and
non-sensical that staement is on several levels. Pro Tools is not
Leopard compatible yet, period. you can't even use it with Leopard if
you're a sighted user so stop saying we can't even use it in
Leopard -- nobody can. You will sound ignorant when saying that to a
knowledgeable person. Further, it's not as if we blind users had
nothing for 16 years. There's an example of ignorance for you. Are
you forgetting the fact that, for many years, blind Mac users could
use Pro Tools with outSPOKEN and were engaged in audio production
that blind Windows users could only dream about? It might help you to
get facts straight before you go spewing blanket statements.
Nice.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] llc.com>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
I am not bent on anything, actually I don't even use the software or
have no interest in using it, but my son does. You fail to
understand my point on my business ventures and financial welth. I
built my foundation with the help of my parents saying a handicap is
in your mind. Never the less I will wait 16 years for it to work on
Leopard. My business is now in training blind people how to use
technology. I offer a better product for less money. I would like to
train them on Pro Tools but as it has been said many times before it
can't be done in this decade. I guess if we handled it your way our
grand children might be able to use it.
On Jan 8, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Slau wrote:
Shaun,
You seem to be bent on this question of whether we can or cannot
use Pro Tools with Tiger. The answer is clearly no. Is there still
any question in your mind? Hopefully not.
Your experience with the maker jof XMJB is fantastic --
congratulations! thing is, working with an individual who is a tiny
developer is not the same as working with a corporation. do you see
the difference?
Since money appears to be no object to you, what is your worry?
hire a sighted assistant to operate a Pro Tools system for you.
Clearly with your business savvy, you'll have no problem organizing
that. You seem to also think that someone's trying to sell you on
an old Mac and a defunct screen reader. Nobody here is trying to
sell you on anything. Hey, while you're starting up some
businesses, why not develop a completely accessible DAW from the
ground up. You'd have a moral purpose and thousands of customers.
What do you say?
