Call me at 770 627 3463. Not to insult anyone but please don't play on
my phone.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Slau wrote:
Shaun,
I understand what it feels like to be frustrated about a purchase
that you made but cannot use. Clearly, you must have been aware that
Pro Tools is not yet accessible with VoiceOver, right? I trust no
one mislead you into thinking such a thing.
Now, let me shed some light on something you missed regarding Pro
Tools and Windows. You're probably a JAWS user and it's true that
JAWS just doesn't do well with Pro Tools. We've exhausted that
possibility with expert scripters. Thing is, Window Eyes works very
well with Pro Tools, perhaps even better than outSPOKEN. So don't
feel so bad when it comes to not being able to access your son's Pro
Tools system. You can run it on an Intel Mac with Boot Camp and
Window Eyes, if you care to learn a new screen reader. The reason
why we undertook the Mac route of things is that it's the defacto
choice among studios and schools throughout the world. I'd rather be
using PT on a Mac than on Windows, simply put, and, if I'm going to
be called upon to halp newcomers to blind Pro Tools access, as I
have for years, I'd rather be doing it on the platform that most
people are using.
You seem to think that Rick and I are some kind of Digidesign
apologists and that we don't seem to want to change the status quo.
I have no idea why you might have such an absurd notion. The whole
reason why we've spent loads of time and money out of our own
pockets is to make a change. Don't you think that we want to see Pro
Tools accessible? Of course, you must, don't you? Don't you realize
we want this to happen because it affects our very livelihood? Of
course it does. Thing is, rather than inquiring and asking whether
there's some way to help, you go and bypass the people who've
invested themselves into trying to building a productive
relationship with a developer. You make it sound like nothing has
happened in 16 years and that couldn't be further from the truth.
You make it sound like you can rap this whole thing up in one neat
lawsuit in five years. We've only begun to work with Digidesign and
you're coming in, guns blazing and you're going to undermine what
we've worked hard to develop.
Go ahead, Shaun. Thanks for having a little respect for those who
have come before you. Don't be surprised, however, if, a few years
from now, some other hot head comes along and criticizes your
approach and blows right past you and says implies that your
approach is full of hot air and they can rap this whole thing up
better and faster. Oh yeah, before you can understand that, you'll
need to spend countless hours helping blind musicians, students,
engineers to learn how to use a screen reader effectively and how to
use an incredibly complex piece of software, how to configure their
interface, control surface, etc. Then you'll have to spend thousands
of dollars out of your own pocket on flights, hotel when flying to
meetings. Then throw in the time and money to develop and maintain a
web site or two dedicated to the the issue of being a blind Pro
Tools user and the work toward making Pro Tools accessible. Build up
some relationships for a couple of years first. Now let's bring in
the person who says, "You're making excuses and and I'm calling it
when I see it." Well, then, maybe you'd understand what some of us
might be feeling. Well, you've already bought your $15,000 Pro Tools
system so, I suppose you're already on your way. Don't feel too bad
-- I spent $25,000 on mine. but then again, that's a fraction of
what I've invested in the entire studio os... go figure. I shouldn't
be so sensitive, eh?
Nobody wants an enemy here, Shaun. Yeah, let's be friends, sure.
Nobody can stop you from going straight to Digidesign just like we
did. You have the right as a consumer to do so. Although we
organized a public petition, I suppose it doesn't hurt for them to
see how passionately people feel about the issue. Go ahead and knock
yourself out. Who knows, maybe you'll have phenomenal results. If
you need any help, I'm here for you.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
Look lets be friends again. Sorry for imposing my views on others.
I know it may be available on Leopard soon, but the question is
when will it be accessible. Clearly you can't answer that and so
far no one on this list can. I am possibly upset because a
$15,422.56 purchase of Pro Tools and various add ons were made for
my son and there isn't any accessibility built in for Windows or
Tiger. You are right, I don't know what you are using and for that
statement I apologize. You have to come up with a better argument
than just my grammar. LOL Listen it is clear that we operate on
two sides of the fence and we can't agree so lets agree to
disagree. Josh I shouldn't have made the statement to you in that
way either. I have contacted the makers of Pro Tools and will set
up a meeting to discuss what is needed to make it accessible.
Again I apologize for my wording and actions. I will bow out of
this one and crusade to talking with people that believe in
actions and results rather than e-mails and excuses.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Slau wrote:
Actually, Shaun, it'll only be a couple of months before it's
Leopard compatible. voiceOver compatibility is another issue.
Incidentally, I hope, for your sake, that when you communicate
with developers, you check your grammar. If you don't know what
I'm talking about, read your message below.
For your information, I'm not using any equipment that is out of
date. You don't know the first thing about what I use so, again,
get facts straight before you spew.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
llc.com>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac
OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
I was actually being sarcastic. It doesn't work on Tiger for
blind people and that has been out for 3 years, so I know durn
well it doesn't work on Leopard. Seeing the rate of progression I
would hope it isn't a matter of 16 years before it is Leopard
compatible. I know you have had and is still using it for years
using the Mac and Outspoken. The thing is that you are still
using it now with outdated equipment and software that isn't in
production. Did you get those facts or did they go over your head?
On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:11 PM, Slau wrote:
Shaun,
When you say things like, "Never the less I will wait 16 years
for it to work on Leopard," you probably don't realize how
disjointed and non-sensical that staement is on several
levels. Pro Tools is not Leopard compatible yet, period. you
can't even use it with Leopard if you're a sighted user so
stop saying we can't even use it in Leopard -- nobody can.
You will sound ignorant when saying that to a knowledgeable
person. Further, it's not as if we blind users had nothing for
16 years. There's an example of ignorance for you. Are you
forgetting the fact that, for many years, blind Mac users
could use Pro Tools with outSPOKEN and were engaged in audio
production that blind Windows users could only dream about? It
might help you to get facts straight before you go spewing
blanket statements.
Nice.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
llc.com>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
I am not bent on anything, actually I don't even use the
software or have no interest in using it, but my son does.
You fail to understand my point on my business ventures and
financial welth. I built my foundation with the help of my
parents saying a handicap is in your mind. Never the less I
will wait 16 years for it to work on Leopard. My business is
now in training blind people how to use technology. I offer a
better product for less money. I would like to train them on
Pro Tools but as it has been said many times before it can't
be done in this decade. I guess if we handled it your way our
grand children might be able to use it.
On Jan 8, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Slau wrote:
Shaun,
You seem to be bent on this question of whether we can or
cannot use Pro Tools with Tiger. The answer is clearly no. Is
there still any question in your mind? Hopefully not.
Your experience with the maker jof XMJB is fantastic --
congratulations! thing is, working with an individual who is
a tiny developer is not the same as working with a
corporation. do you see the difference?
Since money appears to be no object to you, what is your
worry? hire a sighted assistant to operate a Pro Tools system
for you. Clearly with your business savvy, you'll have no
problem organizing that. You seem to also think that
someone's trying to sell you on an old Mac and a defunct
screen reader. Nobody here is trying to sell you on
anything. Hey, while you're starting up some businesses, why
not develop a completely accessible DAW from the ground up.
You'd have a moral purpose and thousands of customers. What
do you say?
