Hi Josh
I'm using grouped mode, and have been ever since I discovered it a few
years ago in Tiger. I have also used DOM modes on both versions of OS
X. The reasons why I stay with group mode are:
1. Grouped mode presents a relatively accurate (visually speaking)
representation of the over all layout of the page. This is important
to me, as I do some web dev work on and off, so I need to get an
approximate view of what exactly I've created or modified. Also, this
enables me to easily talk someone through the navigation of the page,
or the other way around. I can tell one of my friends, it's a few
links down, near the right hand side of the page, and that's exactly
where it is. I've always liked that Voiceover doesn't even attempt to
hide the visual aspects of the OS, much like Outspoken did in OS 9 or
under Windows. I find that having a visual layout makes me more
productive, not less, and I'm a totally blind user. Also, this means
that on sites I get familiar with or use frequently, I can quickly
jump to sections I wish, sections that might not be bounded by headers
and/or tables, or any other HTML tag directly.
2. Grouped navigation lets me read more of the page at once, rather
than having to press a directional key every few seconds. Also btw, VO
+a to read all works on groups, as well, and will reread the current
group, as it rereads the current item in DOM.
3. Dom sometimes can seriously mess up the layout of the page--to see
what I mean try shopping at safeway.com. In DOM mode I get a list of
products, and the quantity edit boxes to fill in... but the buy
buttons are past all of those boxes down at the bottom. This is not
how the page is laid out visually, and grouped mode gives me an
accurate representation. The way that page looks, to give some
perspective, is it has the product you're buying, the price, any
special offer if applicable underneath the price, an edit field for
the quantity, and a buy button. Those are all arranged from left to
right, in a table structure though not coded in an HTML table. Grouped
navigation presents me that same layout, where as dom gives me the
product, an edit field, another product, an edit field... and so on,
then all the prices, then all the buy buttons. Needless to say this
isn't too much use. Also, wikipedia is another example, the nav links
aren't where they should be, in fact they're all the way at the bottom
of the page.
4. Group navigation gives meaning to the four directions, up down left
and right. In Dom I might as well not even use the up and down arrows,
half the time they don't go anywhere, and the other half of the time
they go to the adjoining DOM element, and no further. This may be
exactly the behavior that is intended, but I find it doesn't help me
much.
I was never a fan of the nonvisual page rendering that Windows screen
readers adopted en masse once GW Micro perfected it. Indeed, I used
netscape for some years after and made window-eyes sets for it until
that became impractical when netscape 6 or 7 was launched. I can't
even count the number of times what I saw differed from what my
classmates saw--I was in middle school at the time--and it was very
frustrating when they'd say "it's right at the top there," when for me
it was maybe at the top, in the middle, or all the way at the
bottom... or somewhere in between. I learned to cope with it, but I
never really cared for it. So, basically, group navigation is close to
what I think should've stayed as the way of browsing the web in any
case, and it was a breath of fresh air when I discovered it, and
Voiceover too for that matter. There's no need to hide the visual
aspects from us... thank goodness Apple, like Alva with Outspoken
did, understands that.
There's my $0.02 on the matter... well maybe a little more than $0.02.
I'll stop rambling now :).
On Apr 14, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote:
I totally disagree. DOM mode with VO has all the same problems that
it does with Window-Eyes or Jaws. I've used both modes. DOM
navigation requires more navigation, gives a less accurate
representation of the page, and requires far more arrowing around.
I suspect if you did a survey, you'd likely find that most users are
using DOM mode, not Grouped, because it is so much like what they've
become accustomed to in Windows. I'm sure you understand the
concept behind grouped navigation, but I don't think you fully
understand the best ways of utilizing it to your advantage while
browsing. Everyone will have a different opinion why they like one
over the other, but as a matter of sheer practicality, it is very
difficult to make an argument that DOM mode is more efficient than
grouped.
I'd like to hear what others are using and why, and how many have
actually learned to use Grouped mode in depth.
