IMO: I agree with ben that debates of reactions to offence to one's core should be in person, (how else can you gauge when you're going too far? not going far enough? or smack them in the face? :) ) A broad group demands broad humor, and personally, i take more offence to someone challenging what I hold above myself than attacking myself personally, so I can relate that to some it is a far greater offence (how many eggshells did I just win?). Neither is acceptable in print, or to be proclaimed/shouted from the streets. In person or simulated with chat it IS different, it is part of getting to know someone; deciding if they are compatible with you. Although I don’t think the op has any intention of starting this dialog, it was going to come up eventually. SynHak is getting big, there are already several pairs that don’t mix, Personally, I enjoy it, but I believe what separates a Hackerspace from a group of close friends sharing tools is how this specific issue is handled. Some will just ban the offenders, some will push towards ridgid professionalism, I favor the model of too many people in a room: if it sucks-yell as loud as the offence was yelled, as Torrie did so eloquently. This keeps the clickieness (is that a word?) down to a minimum and continues the mixing of everyone on equal ground (the point right?).
To me, (as I was reminded recently) the discuss list is for coherent thought, or proofread opinion,( or in my case, semi-intoxicated rants that are spelchek3d), but not for casual chat. On a few comments, including the two discussed here, Outside of severe incompatibility with the program I run (which I can’t really fault anyone for (however mad it may make me)), the only fault I saw is simply one of using the list as a chat forum to get to know people, we have IRC & real life for casual chat. Please don’t slash my tires, Craig On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Jeff Nielson <[email protected]> wrote: > "I am your god" is just as vague as Ben was. That is why people who are > PC just stay away from topics that might offend. This is a conversation > that should be had in person. I suggest you call each other, because this > kind of stuff just gets blown out of proportion when written text is > misunderstood. Some might say, they were just being funny. I suggest we > look for ways to be funny that don't potentially tread on others when we > are talking or acting publicly. My advice to all is that if you want to > form your own RasPi church, say slurs, or create false idol walls you > should probably just do it with your close friends, not in a group that > wants to have a public face. You will alienate good people that you would > otherwise really like to be around. > > Disclaimer: I am not a member (because my schedule is bad). > > --Jeff > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> On Friday, November 15, 2013 21:45:24 Seeley, Tim wrote: >> > Hi Torrie, >> > >> > Thanks for caring and asking to have a better understanding. Jesus >> died so >> > that I could be forgiven and restored to a relationship with >> Himself/God. >> > That makes His and mine relationship very personal for me. I am not >> > offended when others religious beliefs are different. Nor is it >> offensive >> > when those beliefs are written and posted. The portion of the note that >> > claimed the sales rack was a god gave no offence. The sign goes >> further by >> > saying "I (the sales rack) am your god". That is what made me wince. >> >> Ok, right. I'm still not sure why it made you wince. I'm really not a >> christian in any sense, so I have no idea about anything. >> >> In my opinion, I don't think it is necessarily un-Excellent to say >> offensive >> words. What matters, is the intent of those words. Consider the phrase >> "wow >> thats gay". It could be interpreted either way. In one instance, it could >> be >> said by a close LGBT friend as a statement that something is in fact >> incredibly gay. >> >> Another instance would be with Ben's post earlier in the thread, where the >> word "gay" was used as a negative statement. The connotation there is that >> being gay is an inferior state. After all, shouldn't an organization of >> technically-minded people be able to run a mailing list or two without >> issue? >> Since that doesn't seem to be the case, they must be gay. >> >> Considering the above, this is perhaps why I'm confused as to why "I am >> your >> god" seems to offend. I can understand that it makes an incredulous and >> blasphemous claim, but I'm not able to see how that statement might be >> describing your religious identity as an inferior state. >> >> To me, the statement was a playful joke that intended to convey to the >> reader >> that the rack was a corporeal entity trying to convince the reader that >> they >> were your new god and should be treated as such. I imagine that the rack >> could >> be seen as one of Satan's tricks that attempt to lure you towards >> disobeying >> the first of the ten commandments. Considering that, if Satan himself >> (with >> all his terrible power) could only muster the strength to conjure a test >> of >> faith in the form of a harmless wire rack, well, I think thats pretty >> funny. >> >> In no way do I mean to come off as trivializing your concerns, I'm merely >> trying to understand the intricacies of a culture I am rather unfamiliar >> with. >> >> > >> > Jesus willingly died that all who would repent and believe in His name >> shall >> > be saved and live with Him forever. That is great news! Christians are >> > called to share that news. That means share not impose. We are not >> called >> > to go around worrying about how others are offending Christians. That >> > really would not help anyone. By speaking up all that I really wanted >> was >> > to add religious preference to the list of things SYNHAK counts as >> worthy >> > of respecting in others. >> > >> > I am all for an eggshell-free zone at SYNHAK. In an effort to address >> > potential future eggshell issues, let me say a few words about the use >> of >> > Jesus's name in ways that are not exactly prayers. Jesus loves all of >> us. >> > In the past I used His name in vain. He forgave me for that and way >> much >> > more when I repented. His word instructs me not to set myself up to >> judge >> > others on matters that are really only between them and God. I am just >> a >> > forgiven sinner ready to share with others that come to want to know >> how to >> > receive their own forgiveness. >> > >> > V/R >> > Tim Seeley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> > Behalf Of Torrie Fischer Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 12:10 PM >> > To: SYN/HAK discussion list >> > Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] New mailing list: power-racing-series >> > >> > On Friday, November 15, 2013 14:21:38 Seeley, Tim wrote: >> > > I too am a not-yet-member, who is considering SYNHAK as a place to >> > > spend some time, meet some new people, learn some new skills, and work >> > > on my pet projects. I fully support the goal of respecting and being >> > > excellent to all regardless of the differences in how we choose to >> > > live out our personal lives. Therefore I would like to request two >> > > things. First that we add religious preference to the list of things >> > > we strive to respect about each other. Second that we remove the >> > > attempt at humor on the sales rack calling it a god. >> > >> > Respecting religious preferences of others is totally an Excellent >> thing. >> > >> > I'm not a christian, so I'm not really sure what is offensive about that >> > sign, or how it can be compared to using "gay" as a slur. Could you >> > elaborate? >> > > V/R >> > > Tim Seeley >> > > >> > > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of alex kot Sent: >> Friday, >> > > November 15, 2013 5:47 AM >> > > To: SYN/HAK discussion list >> > > Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] New mailing list: power-racing-series >> > > >> > > Thanks Torrie, Philip, and Xander for your input. Just to elaborate >> > > more onto this. Syn/Hak is a community for open minded individuals. >> > > The space does not condone to judging sexual preference, race, gender, >> > > and disabilities. By chance this was just one of those internet >> > > references that was not in context of judging someones sexual >> > > preference, be leery that everyone may not get those references. Try >> > > to be politically correct and most importantly respectful of other >> > > people, after all this is a public email listing. >> > > >> > > On Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:38 PM, Alexander Golightley >> > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> coinspelunk@gma >> > > il.com<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: Torrie, thank you. >> > > Seriously. I couldn't support your decision more than I do now. >> > > >> > > As another non-heteronormative member of the LGBT community, I deal >> > > with bigoted crap enough day to day. I don't need to deal with it in >> > > the organization I love so dearly. I think actions like this are the >> > > only way to show that this type of bigotry is unacceptable. I'm >> > > delighted to be part of an organization that feels the same way >> > > (although I am in no way surprised by this. I think very highly of the >> > > people involved in SYN/HAK.) >> > > >> > > -Xander >> > > >> > > >> > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Philip P. Patnode >> > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]<ma >> > > ilto:[email protected]>>> wrote: TWIMC and Torrie Fischer, >> > > >> > > As an outsider and non-member, who is considering SYNHAK as a place to >> > > spend some time, meet some new people, learn some new skills, and work >> > > on my pet projects, I want to state that I fully support Torrie >> > > Fischer's reaction to the astonishing email from BL containing an >> > > obvious slur against a group of people who deserve to be treated as >> equals >> > > in all respects, at all times. >> > > >> > > Homophobic slurs are unwanted, unnecessary, embarrassing, and totally >> > > devoid of substance. Even one as silly as the one in BL's email reply >> > > - is out of place in our civilized society. Comments like that have >> > > no place in the organization and must be suppressed with prejudice >> > > immediately. >> > > >> > > I hope that the members of SYNHAK will agree with Torrie and support >> her. >> > > >> > > Sincerely, >> > > >> > > PPP >> > > >> > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:06 PM, Torrie Fischer >> > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> tdfischer >> > > @hackerbots.net<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:> >> > > On Thursday, November 14, 2013 20:28:58 Ben Lippincott wrote: >> > > > Ha! Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! >> > > >> > > Hello, friend. >> > > >> > > It seems that you have tried to introduce a smidgen of immature humor >> > > into a public mailing list. As a non-heteronormative member of the >> > > LGBT community, I must say that I am disgusted with your behavior. >> > > Thoroughly disgusted, in fact. I will admit this: SYNHAK is >> > > essentially a very large community of technical children who somehow >> > > managed to pull together enough collaborative effort to give birth to >> > > something wonderful in the City of Invention. >> > > >> > > Irrespective of that, we give each other the full respect that each of >> > > us is due. Using "gay" in such a manner shows a disappointing lack of >> > > respect from you. >> > > >> > > As Champion of SYNHAK, it is my duty to ensure that SYNHAK is >> > > constantly moving in a direction in accordance with our mission >> > > >> > > statement, which I've included here from our bylaws for reference: >> > > SYN/HAK provides an environment for people to educate, create, and >> > > >> > > share amongst themselves and others within the domains of technology, >> > > art and science. >> > > >> > > -- http://static.synhak.org/documents/latex/bylaws.pdf >> > > >> > > >> > > It is my belief that in order to secure such an environment, upholding >> > > the first rule of the space is of utmost important. Again, i've >> > > >> > > included it here for reference: >> > > 1. Be excellent to each other. >> > > >> > > -- http://static.synhak.org/documents/latex/space-rules.pdf >> > > >> > > With the powers vested in me as documented through our bylaws and >> > > given to me through my re-election to the position of SYNHAK Champion >> > > by the membership of this community, I hereby declare that you were >> > > not acting in accordance with our mission statement. That is to say, >> > > you are not acting Excellent. >> > > >> > > I recommend that you cease this behavior immediately. Do not pass go. >> > > Do not collect $200. Do not send another mail to this community or >> > > further action will be taken to exclude you and your behavior from it. >> > > >> > > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:59 AM, codex codices >> > >> > >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>> >> wrote: >> > > > > I tried to subscribe and it says that I must enter a valid email >> > > > > address. >> > > > > Its the same address I use for the other mailing lists. >> > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Torrie Fischer >> > > >> > > >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>>wrote: >> > > > >> Howdy, all. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> At the request of Devin, I've created a new list: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> [email protected]<mailto:power-racing-series@synhak >> <mail >> > > > >> to:[email protected]<mailto: >> power-racing-series@synhak>. >> > > > >> org> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Subscribe here: >> > > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/power-racing-series >> > > > >> >> > > > >> It is intended for use in facilitating discussions about the >> > > > >> power wheel racing series project, aka the big pink Power Wheels >> > > > >> car and nearby tractor chassis in the front of the space. I've >> > > > >> added Devin as the primary list owner, with >> > > > >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> sysadmin@synhak >> > > > >> .org<mailto:[email protected]>> as the backup. >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > >> Discuss mailing list >> > > > >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected] >> > > > >> g<mailto:[email protected]>> >> > > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Discuss mailing list >> > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected] >> > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Discuss mailing list >> > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]<mai >> > > lto:[email protected]>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Discuss mailing list >> > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]<mai >> > > lto:[email protected]>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Discuss mailing list >> > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]<mai >> > > lto:[email protected]>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
