This whole situation is summed up perfectly by paraphrasing you Torrie: "I'm not able to see how that statement might be offensive". In both situations we have a person or people making comments they were unaware were offensive to another subculture. If people could remember that contextual jokes do not translate very well through written means we will avoid many of these incidents in the future. That said, when someone new to the mailing list is unaware of this practice and attempts to convey one of these jokes, such as the "Community" reference Ben made or the implication of holiness someone placed on the retail rack if we could all remember that we might be missing something and just politely inform them of their error rather than coming out swinging the banhammer I think we'll be a lot better off. I don't want to have this discussion every time someone leaves a tarot deck, Qu'ran, Talmud, Bible, Book of Mormon, Buddha, golden calf, Statue of Ganesha, or bowl of pasta around the space. Should their behavior repeat then you may consider using the banhammer, assuming it was put back on the tool rack after it was used last, which it probably won't be.
In closing: Be excellent to each other, use of slurs of any kind is not looked upon kindly at SynHak nor are disparaging remarks about individuals belief systems. The reason we operate by 'be excellent to each other' is so we don't have to explicitly spell out what may or may not be conducted at the space, use your head and treat people how you want them to treat you. Remember that this list is archived for all time on the internet and if your name is associated with the email address you've subscribed to us with whenever anyone googles your name, this list will come up. So if you don't want future employers, girlfriends, divorce lawyers, or grand children from finding your off color views: don't post them here. Regards, Andrew L On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Craig Bergdorf <[email protected]> wrote: > oops, i suck with names (meant jeff, not ben), Happy to hear from you Ben > (although we've never met) > > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Ben Lippincott < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm sorry if I offended anyone. The specific phrase that I used was a >> meme (it's the cartoon seal), and intended as a joke. >> >> >> On Monday, November 18, 2013, Craig Bergdorf wrote: >> >>> IMO: >>> >>> I agree with ben that debates of reactions to offence to one's core >>> should be in person, (how else can you gauge when you're going too far? not >>> going far enough? or smack them in the face? :) ) A broad group demands >>> broad humor, and personally, i take more offence to someone challenging >>> what I hold above myself than attacking myself personally, so I can relate >>> that to some it is a far greater offence (how many eggshells did I just >>> win?). Neither is acceptable in print, or to be proclaimed/shouted from >>> the streets. In person or simulated with chat it IS different, it is part >>> of getting to know someone; deciding if they are compatible with you. >>> Although I don’t think the op has any intention of starting this dialog, it >>> was going to come up eventually. SynHak is getting big, there are already >>> several pairs that don’t mix, Personally, I enjoy it, but I believe what >>> separates a Hackerspace from a group of close friends sharing tools is how >>> this specific issue is handled. Some will just ban the offenders, some >>> will push towards ridgid professionalism, I favor the model of too many >>> people in a room: if it sucks-yell as loud as the offence was yelled, as >>> Torrie did so eloquently. This keeps the clickieness (is that a word?) >>> down to a minimum and continues the mixing of everyone on equal ground (the >>> point right?). >>> >>> >>> >>> To me, (as I was reminded recently) the discuss list is for coherent >>> thought, or proofread opinion,( or in my case, semi-intoxicated rants that >>> are spelchek3d), but not for casual chat. >>> >>> On a few comments, including the two discussed here, Outside of severe >>> incompatibility with the program I run (which I can’t really fault anyone >>> for (however mad it may make me)), the only fault I saw is simply one of >>> using the list as a chat forum to get to know people, we have IRC & real >>> life for casual chat. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please don’t slash my tires, >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Jeff Nielson <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>> "I am your god" is just as vague as Ben was. That is why people who are >>> PC just stay away from topics that might offend. This is a conversation >>> that should be had in person. I suggest you call each other, because this >>> kind of stuff just gets blown out of proportion when written text is >>> misunderstood. Some might say, they were just being funny. I suggest we >>> look for ways to be funny that don't potentially tread on others when we >>> are talking or acting publicly. My advice to all is that if you want to >>> form your own RasPi church, say slurs, or create false idol walls you >>> should probably just do it with your close friends, not in a group that >>> wants to have a public face. You will alienate good people that you would >>> otherwise really like to be around. >>> >>> Disclaimer: I am not a member (because my schedule is bad). >>> >>> --Jeff >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Torrie Fischer < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Friday, November 15, 2013 21:45:24 Seeley, Tim wrote: >>> > Hi Torrie, >>> > >>> > Thanks for caring and asking to have a better understanding. Jesus >>> died so >>> > that I could be forgiven and restored to a relationship with >>> Himself/God. >>> > That makes His and mine relationship very personal for me. I am not >>> > offended when others religious beliefs are different. Nor is it >>> offensive >>> > when those beliefs are written and posted. The portion of the note >>> that >>> > claimed the sales rack was a god gave no offence. The sign goes >>> further by >>> > saying "I (the sales rack) am your god". That is what made me wince. >>> >>> Ok, right. I'm still not sure why it made you wince. I'm really not a >>> christian in any sense, so I have no idea about anything. >>> >>> In my opinion, I don't think it is necessarily un-Excellent to say >>> offensive >>> words. What matters, is the intent of those words. Consider the phrase >>> "wow >>> thats gay". It could be interpreted either way. In one instance, it >>> could be >>> said by a close LGBT friend as a statement that something is in fact >>> incredibly gay. >>> >>> Another instance would be with Ben's post earlier in the thread, where >>> the >>> word "gay" was used as a negative statement. The connotation there is >>> that >>> being gay is an inferior state. After all, shouldn't an organization of >>> technically-minded people be able to run a mailing list or two without >>> issue? >>> Since that doesn't seem to be the case, they must be gay. >>> >>> Considering the above, this is perhaps why I'm confused as to why "I am >>> your >>> god" seems to offend. I can understand that it makes an incredulous and >>> blasphemous claim, but I'm not able to see how that statement might be >>> describing your religious identity as an inferior state. >>> >>> To me, the statement was a playful joke that intended to convey to the >>> reader >>> that the rack was a corporeal entity trying to convince the reader that >>> they >>> were your new god and should be treated as such. I imagine that the rack >>> could >>> be seen as one of Satan's tricks that attempt to lure you towards >>> disobeying >>> the first of the ten commandments. Considering that, if Satan himself >>> (with >>> all his terrible power) could only muster the strength to conjure a test >>> of >>> faith in the form of a harmless wire rack, well, I think thats pretty >>> funny. >>> >>> In no way do I mean to come off as trivializing your concerns, I'm merely >>> trying to understand the intricacies of a culture I am rather unfamiliar >>> with. >>> >>> > >>> > Jesus willingly died that all who would repent and believe in His name >>> shall >>> > be saved and live with Him forever. That is great news! Christians are >>> > called to share that news. That means share not impose. We are not >>> called >>> > to go around worrying about how others are offending Christians. That >>> > really would not help anyone. By speaking up all that I really wanted >>> was >>> > to add religious preference to the list of things SYNHAK counts as >>> worthy >>> > of respecting in others. >>> > >>> > I am all for an eggshell-free zone at SYNHAK. In an effort to address >>> > potential future eggshell issues, let me say a few words about the use >>> of >>> > Jesus's name in ways that are >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thanks! >> Ben Lippincott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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