The #1 issue is placeboundness. If you are looking for a first job, or are unemployed you cannot afford to put any restrictions on where you take that first position (technically this applies to all, not just BS/MS grads). I looked at Indeed.com and they show 52 new openings in GIS. That is not actually accurate as many of these will be expired ads. 474 came up on Monster. Now these are all kinds of GIS jobs, running from city planning to consulting.
A good place to start: http://giscareers.com/ http://www.gjc.org/ of course, USAjobs too. There is a difference though between being a person who is an expert in GIS and an ecologist/environemntal scientist with GIS skills. A GIS person typically runs through geography. There are some basic programming skills that are generally used for more highend GIS positions. Visual Basic (it used to use avenue, but this was disbanded) is the standard programming language for ArcGIS/ArcView now. C++ also helps. Add in familiarity with R and you can drammatically increase your marketability. But the more of this you get, the less of an ecologist you become and the more of a GIS tech you become. The key is to get some kind of GIS spot, even an intern. Watch your local newspapers as often part-time or temp posts will pop up. Also, check out the hoards of environmental consulting companies. The big problem as I earlier stated is having your education carved out for a particular job. The more generalized your education the more jobs you qualify for, but the fewer you for which you are maximally competitive. The more specialized your education, the more competitive you will be for that cut of the pie, but the fewer opportunities you can actually apply too. There is no magic number. Seriously, gettiing the very first job (barring knowing someone) is a crap shoot, its luck. That is why you must send out as many applications as possible without consideration of where they are or if you perfectly fit the position. Why? Because there are literally a pile of people who are also looking and applying who are equally or more qualified than each of us. So, if you can get out more apps than the others, provide yourself with fewer limitations on what you apply for, you are more likely to get on. To further exemplify this, imagine a job that pays a buttload of money, provides great benefits, has reasonable work hours, is located in the perfect environment, neighborhood, and is just plain perfect. Now, imagine a second job that pays a marginal salary, provides limited benefits (if any), has excessive work hours, is located in a ghetto next to a papermill, sewage plant, and rendering plant, and is in about the worst environment you can imagine. Which will get more applicants? Which will get the better selection of applicants? For which will your particular CV be more competitive? Some will tell you not to apply for the second vacancy. This may be good advice if you are maximally competitive. However, your real choice here is employed vs unemployed. IF you are a perfectly qualified applicant for post #1, you may still be one of a hundred, giving you a 1% chance of getting the position, all else equal. If you are marginally qualified for the second post, you might still be the most qualified applicant, and possibly by a landslide. Further, these people may actually treat you better in some respects because even though they can't pay the money, or provide the benefits, they know where they are, and they know that no one else wants to work there! Now, you have a position, can gain experience, and after a while move on. If you wait to be hired at post #1 you better either be the best qualified (right now) in your field, have a bowl of lucky charms and a leprechaun on your shoulder, or have a direct line with a supreme being because your odds are so low that without a ton of things going for you, it just is not going to happen. You must be flexible and realistic. Even then, when the job market is what it is at the moment (in all fields and at all levels) it is going to be hard to find a position. There are plenty of PHDs taking MS level positions because the PHD market is suppressed by state and federal budgets. The MS people are taking BS jobs because of the competition with PHD folks, and the BS grads are stuck taking positions for less technically educated. It all boils down to doing the best you can, continuing to make yourself more marketable in any way you can (even if that involves volunteering your services...and yes this can lead to a job). I have a personal philosophy that no one should work for free, but there does come a point where you must do what you gotta do to move forward. You can also try marketing your services if you have the software, but this in itself is expensive. Many GIS folks freelance and do pretty well. Malcolm On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Amberly Moon <[email protected]> wrote: > As an unemployed individual with a Masters degree and 4.5 years of > daily work experience using ArcGIS (as well as numerous other types of > experience both in the field and office including state and federal > jobs), I am still having an extraordinarily difficult time finding a > job. Is there any advice other than ArcGIS that sets someone apart? It > seems like it really comes down to who you know and networking your > way into a job. However, I have tried the whole getting contacts for > help to no avail too so I'm clueless on what else to do. I know there > are tons of other people like myself having difficulty so I know I > would appreciate getting back on subject as well for ideas on how we > can get jobs. Thanks for input. > > Amberly Moon > > On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Silvia Secchi <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Exactly! We are now all feeding the troll. Let's talk about best >> strategies to be successful. I taught myself GIS after getting my PhD >> (which is in economics btw) and was very willing to collaborate, rip >> my writing to shreds and re-submit to end up with grant proposals that >> would be funded (note that English is not my native language). I did >> have a great boss who let me be a co-PI while I was a staff scientist >> at a research center, and that sense of responsibilities and rewards >> being aligned did help. It also helped that my boss was a woman who >> had children so when I had children myself I did not feel shunned. But >> the point is that those GIS and grant writing skills got me my tenure >> track job, because they gave me an edge over the next candidate. For >> people working in ecology, it is true that R has some terrific >> advantages, but if you work with people in geography (as I do), many >> of them use ArgGIS, so that is also a consideration... >> >> Silvia >> >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Miguel Cañedo <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Seems to me that you completely misunderstood Dr. Olden's e-mail, who (to >>> my understanding) just tried to help everyone to reject sexist comments >>> like the one originally posted. >>> >>> I am not saying that this kind of comments should not >>> be publicly disapproved, and probably just moving them into the spam folder >>> is not the best solution, but I really don't see why Dr. Olden should take >>> the blame for it when he was just trying to help. >>> >>> Best, Miguel. >>> >>> 2013/2/18 Leslie M. Adams <[email protected]> >>> >>>> Now, I am the one who must speak up and voice my support for Yvette (and >>>> Chandreyee). While no slight may have been intended, as a female scientist >>>> I >>>> too experienced the responses Yvette cites - and especially the one >>>> recently >>>> posted by Dr. Olden - as belittling and dismissive. There is considerable >>>> gender bias in the fields of ecology and biology and it is important to >>>> object to it whenever it arises; whether intentional or not. Perhaps it is >>>> easy to counsel "moving on" when you are unaffected by this handicap >>>> personally, but to say that it is somehow unsuitable or inappropriate to >>>> address on this listserv is ridiculous and dismisses the tremendously >>>> damaging effect this bias has on many, many lives. It is also not lost on >>>> me >>>> that the issue of gender has somehow arisen in a discussion of the skills >>>> necessary for landing a job in ecology. I would suggest that this is no >>>> coincidence. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Leslie M. Adams, Ph.D. >>>> >>>> Adjunct Professor of Plant Systematics >>>> >>>> Professional Training and Development >>>> >>>> University of New Hampshire >>>> >>>> <http://home.comcast.net/~leslie.adams/> >>>> http://home.comcast.net/~leslie.adams/ >>>> >>>> Home Office: 603 / 659-6177 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adjunct Associate Professor of Environmental Sustainability >>>> >>>> School of Undergraduate Studies (online) >>>> >>>> University of Maryland University College >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adjunct Professor of Life Sciences >>>> >>>> Department of Liberal Arts >>>> >>>> New Hampshire Institute of Art >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we >>>> created them." - Albert Einstein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Julian Olden >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:04 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] A Graduate Student’s Guide to Neces sary >>>> Skills for Landing a Job >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Yvette, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Apologies, but your interpretation of my suggestion is extremely misguided >>>> >>>> and flat-out wrong. My response was a cleaver way of saying that you can >>>> >>>> ignore the silly responses of particular ECO-LOGGERS (some of which have a >>>> >>>> track record of this behavior) by filtering your emails. Unfortunately >>>> >>>> your email has added fuel to a series of ECOLOG posts that have very >>>> >>>> little to do with the original premise of the Blickley et al. (2012). >>>> >>>> Let's all move on now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Julian >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> Julian D. Olden >>>> >>>> Freshwater Ecology & Conservation Lab >>>> >>>> School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences >>>> >>>> University of Washington, Seattle WA 98195 >>>> >>>> e: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], t: (206) 616-3112 < >>>> <tel:%28206%29%20616-3112> tel:%28206%29%20616-3112> >>>> >>>> w: <http://www.fish.washington.edu/research/oldenlab/> >>>> http://www.fish.washington.edu/research/oldenlab/ >>>> >>>> skype: goldenolden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "The face of the river . . . was not a book to be read once and thrown >>>> >>>> aside, for it had a new story to tell every day." < Mark Twain >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13 7:37 AM, "Yvette Dickinson" < <mailto: >>>> [email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Like Chandreyee Mitra I was surprised by the comment included in Clara's >>>> >>>>> list: >>>> >>>>> "7. ...i am somewhat exercised by your post because, IMO, too many young, >>>> >>>>> especially, female, >>>> >>>>> applicants don't bring much to the table that others don't already know >>>> >>>>> or that cannot be readily >>>> >>>>> duplicated or that is mostly generalist-oriented..." >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is a sentiment that I have heard before in other venues and find >>>> >>>>> abhorrent. I initially chose not >>>> >>>>> to comment on it here, but I do support Chandreyee's in her comment. >>>> >>>> >>>>> However, I am disgusted by the response Chandreyee recieved. To be told >>>> >>>>> to simply use your email >>>> >>>>> filter and not worry your silly little head over such matters is >>>> >>>>> offensive. The concerns Chandreyee >>>> >>>>> raised are legitimate, and should be addressed with the gravity and >>>> >>>>> respect they deserve. >>>> >>>> >>>>> I would like to remind all readers of ESA's code of ethics, particularly >>>> >>>>> principle g. >>>> >>>>> "Ecologists will not discriminate against others, in the course of their >>>> >>>>> work on the basis of gender, >>>> >>>>> sexual orientation, marital status, creed, religion, race, color, >>>> >>>>> national origin, age, economic status, >>>> >>>>> disability, or organizational affiliation." >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yvette Dickinson >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Miguel Cañedo-Argüelles* >>> >>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Miguel_Canedo-Argueelles/ >>> >>> *Lytle Lab* >>> Cordley Hall >>> Oregon State University >>> Corvallis, Oregon (USA) 97331 >>> http://www.science.oregonstate.edu/lytlelab/?q=home >>> >>> *Freshwater Ecology and Management (F.E.M.) research group* >>> Departament d'Ecologia, Universitat Barcelona >>> Diagonal, 643 >>> 08028 BARCELONA >>> Catalonia, Spain >>> http://www.ub.edu/fem/ >> >> >> >> -- >> Silvia Secchi >> Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of >> Agribusiness Economics >> Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program >> Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410 >> Southern Illinois University >> 1205 Lincoln Drive >> Carbondale, Illinois 62901 >> Phone:(618)453-1714 >> Fax: (618)453-1708 >> >> Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe >> de vous tout de même. >> Charles Forbes de Montalembert >> >> The way we organize the modern American university fragments our >> knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but we are >> divided by the methods that scholars use. >> Elinor Ostrom -- Malcolm L. McCallum Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological Sciences University of Missouri at Kansas City Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! 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