Dobrá práce Vojto, na tohle jsem fakt zvědavej! On Mon Feb 23 2015 at 11:16:22 Vojtěch Dostál <[email protected]> wrote:
> In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave > of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It > won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool. What we practically need > to do is have two Trainings for the transition period. The introductory > parts of the Training module can stay the same - principles of Wikipedia > community etc. do not change. However, the parts that concern practical > editing should be offered in both Wikimarkup and VisualEditor. Readers will > be able to choose the one they like and go through it. > > If Samir and WMF want to look into this we will be more than happy. > Translation of preexisting guide is much easier than doing it from scratch. > The Hebrew version will be of limited use because nobody in Wikimedia Czech > Republic speaks Hebrew. Also, I would strongly prefer a version that uses > the classical Training-based style (it is easier to go through and readers > are more likely to finish it than a plain PDF). > > Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to > write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we > do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable > period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do > some translations of our texts into English if you are interested. > On the other hand, English Wikipedia is not very likely to profit from a > VE training because VE was switched off on English Wikipedia, right? > > best regards > > > > > > > > > Vojtěch Dostál > > místopředseda / vice-chairman > Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic > http://www.wikimedia.cz > Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter > <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/FsHJr> > > > 2015-02-23 1:05 GMT+01:00 Pine W <[email protected]>: > >> Hi Samir, >> >> The use of VE may partially depend on the particular wiki involved. Also, >> we are still waiting on Citoid, which means that we still do references the >> old fashioned way. We also need to show new users how to create accounts >> and how to register in Education Extension course pages. So there is >> definitely room for training new users on Wikipedia mechanics even if they >> use VE. >> >> In addition to the mechanics of editing, new users need to learn >> community norms with new users so that they know how to select article >> topics, how to avoid copyvios and BLP violations, what the 5 pillars are, >> how to meet medical referencing standards where appicable, how to use talk >> pages, how to use user and user talk pages, when to use the draft namespace >> and AFC, what sandboxes and infoboxes are, and how to deal with deletion >> discussions. Some of these norms will vary by wiki. >> >> We also need to inspire new users so that editing feels valuable. LiAnna >> from Wiki Ed has some wonderful slides and ideas about that, so you may >> want to talk to her about incorporating her ideas into a learning pattern. >> >> I would like to be able to cover all of these subjects with new users in >> one hour. If you can create a lesson plan for this, do please upload an >> outline and slides to Commons, and create one or more learning patterns. >> You may want to coordinate the lesson plan development with other people on >> the WMF education team and in Wiki Ed. There will be a substantial time >> commitment to do all of this well, so I hope that Floor will agree to >> support this project with the necessary staff time. >> >> I would like to make use of these resources in April if not sooner. >> >> Thanks very much for your interest. Please let us know if Floor wants to >> proceed with this project and when we can expect the finished products. >> >> Pine >> On Feb 22, 2015 3:33 PM, "Samir Elsharbaty" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE >>> especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have >>> always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing >>> typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new >>> user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I >>> would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. >>> It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn >>> by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it >>> differently. >>> >>> Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns> on helping >>> with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for >>> creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I >>> would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so >>> that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout. >>> >>> Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas >>> that could be more practical? >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education >>>> communitty. >>>> >>>> FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the >>>> next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague >>>> Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us >>>> with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration. >>>> >>>> Pine >>>> On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems >>>>> there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux. >>>>> >>>>> Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great >>>>> need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to >>>>> write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training >>>>> module <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students> >>>>> for students. >>>>> >>>>> If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It >>>>> would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vojtěch Dostál >>>>> >>>>> místopředseda / vice-chairman >>>>> Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic >>>>> http://www.wikimedia.cz >>>>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter >>>>> <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter >>>>> <http://eepurl.com/FsHJr> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students >>>>>> working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot >>>>>> do. >>>>>> I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good >>>>>> enough >>>>>> to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider >>>>>> community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very >>>>>> very >>>>>> difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of >>>>>> coding >>>>>> in any form. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the >>>>>> need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the >>>>>> captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the >>>>>> bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go >>>>>> to >>>>>> the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless >>>>>> with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move >>>>>> text >>>>>> into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most >>>>>> students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even >>>>>> if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the >>>>>> redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase >>>>>> student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being >>>>>> wrongly done. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way >>>>>> that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an >>>>>> ideal world :) >>>>>> >>>>>> That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world >>>>>> we inhabit as Wikimedians. >>>>>> >>>>>> The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia >>>>>> matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, >>>>>> no >>>>>> help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our >>>>>> community >>>>>> of productive Wikimedians. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for >>>>>> trainers. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a >>>>>> workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer >>>>>> to >>>>>> Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all). >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I >>>>>> know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing >>>>>> to >>>>>> a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer). >>>>>> >>>>>> Charles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Education mailing >>>>>> list [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Education mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Education mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Education mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Samir Elsharbaty, >>> Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program >>> Wikimedia Foundation >>> +2.011.200.696.77 >>> [email protected] >>> education.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> EE mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >
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