On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 12:16  PM, Chip Scheide wrote:

>> The toolbar can be hidden--that's what the oval button on the top 
>> right
>> is for.  Further, in almost every application, it can be customized.
> placed in a location which in the previous (and ALL previous) versions
> the window sizing widgets were located.

The tool bar is placed *below* the place where all window sizing 
widgets were located.  The window sizing widgets always had been, and 
still are, in the title bar.  The tool bar is below the title bar.  And 
as I said, it can be customized or hidden.

> key equivelnts are *not* redundancy - as they do not cause to exist, 
> nor
> function on different occurances of an object.  ex:  "command v" does 
> not
> bring into existance, nor operate on an item (object) seperate from the
> edit menu function 'paste'.

they certainly are redundancy; they do the same thing by a different 
method.

> The toolbar does exactly that.  It causes to exist a duplicate,
> extraneous, object - in most cases using screen 'real estate' to 
> dupliate
> an existing function (most often already) in the primary menu bar.

No more duplicate or extraneous than command keys.  they just offer a 
different way of doing the same thing.

> Additionally - there would be no need for a 'toolbar' had apple left 
> the
> 'Apple menu' alone.  As it provided EXACTLY this functionality

No, they do completely different things--For instance, the tool bar in 
the window I'm writing this email contains a send button, a button that 
toggles between reply  and reply-to-all, an attachment button, a fonts 
button, a colors button, an address-book button, and a save-as-draft 
button.  None of those buttons are in the Apple menu of any version of 
the Mac OS.

In the Finder, very few of the buttons there duplicate anything that is 
in any version of the Apple menu in the Mac OS.

>  again ex: the 'view' button object for the tool
> bar duplicates - inexactly - the primary menubar functionality of the
> view menu, as the menu bar functionality is greater (various options 
> for
> sorting, and icon size etc) than the toolbar button.

The View menu is not the Apple menu.

Besides, as I have said repeatedly, if you don't like the tool bar, 
turn it off.

We're not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We're spiritual beings having a human experience.

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