Carsten wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 23:38:51 -0600 Jeff Hoogland <jeffhoogl...@linux.com>
> said:
>
>
>> No. You are just incorrect.
>>
>>
>>> There is really only so much you can do with current E themes, and it's
>>>
>> why so may are slight mods of each other
>>
>> The reason why most of the themes are slight mods of each other is two fold:
>>
>> 1.) Elementary's theme engine is very powerful and allows more
>> customization than any other theme engine. Because of this creating new
>> themes is a great deal of work.
>>
>> this gets exasperated by
>>
>> 2.) There is very limited documentation on creating themes with Elementary.
>>
>> Users being able to copy+paste other users desktop layouts is not going to
>> change the fact that the default E theme draws a pile of flak every time it
>> is shared outside of the E community. Those copied layouts will still be
>> using the same themes as everything else.
>>
>>
>>> They do not really allow for a fully creative approach to desktop theming.
>>>
>> This is vague and non-specific. How does the most powerful themeing engine
>> for the Unix desktop not allow "a fully creative approach"?
>>
>
> in these two above, you are right. edje is a double-edged sword. on one side
> it
> is very powerful. more powerful than css at least as best i know about css,
> but
> it is complex as a result. and yes - not a lot of docs. i think in the
> headlong
> rush of theme power we lost sight of usability. admittedly i alwasy expected
> edje to have tools and people to not write edc by hand. it was a temporary
> solution. one that stuck. enventor and eflete are in fact two good example of
> making better tools. at this point i would point people to go use them to
> reduce the complexity and work on edje.
>
> in the longer we have our vaporware project "bob" to try and solve things in
> the long term. not just themes but app+ui design too.
>
Don't blame edje/edc for whatever... :) The same holds for any
sufficiently powerful gfx language, whether edc or css or svg or xyz.
Once you start creating complex stuff with them, or just stuff with
lots of elements, you will surely be overwhelmed by complexity
and details.
You absolutely need good gui designer tools for each application
domain. But even with such available, the argument I'm making (as you
well know) is that shareable 'shell-theming' (however you want to
implement it, restricted profiles or whatnot) would be a simpler yet
powerful means to highlight E (or any distro based on it), far more
than just via E themes - one that is in fact somewhat orthogonal to
current E theming.
That is after all what many users do - they will create cool desktops
based on some existing theme, plus maybe some gadgets/modules/etc,
and then show it off via screenshots.. as that is the only way they can
'share' such constructs.
If it were better formalized, designers can create some really
compelling
stuff.. things that really bring out the power of the underlying gfx/theming
engine, the 'coolnes' of E, etc...
Need I give, yet again, links to Stardock 'shell' themes? :)
>
>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Jose Gonzalez <jose_...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Maybe... or maybe you're just not thinking deeply enough about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jose Gonzalez <jose_...@juno.com>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you want to grow your user base then there's no 'easier' way
>>>>> than to have E support distributable shell-theming (restricted profiles
>>>>> if you want). It's the best way to attract the attention of new and
>>>>>
>>> devoted
>>>
>>>>> users and designers... those that will evangelize E for its coolness.
>>>>> There is really only so much you can do with current E themes, and
>>>>> it's why so may are slight mods of each other... They do not really
>>>>>
>>> allow
>>>
>>>>> for a fully creative approach to desktop theming.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd rather see more work on better/larger variety of E themes before we
>>>>>> work on a profile distributor. As is there are only two fully feature
>>>>>> complete E19 themes that are unique. Most of the rest are either
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> copy+paste
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> jobs of the two complete themes or they are missing a lot of things
>>>>>>
>>> (such
>>>
>>>>>> as elm components).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Jose Gonzalez <jose_...@juno.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps it's really more a reflection of people 'bored' with
>>>>>>> the same kind of 'standard' desktops they've been seeing
>>>>>>> for so many years now?
>>>>>>> As I've suggested before, a feature for E that would make it
>>>>>>> far more interesting is a 'shell-theming' capability that would be
>>>>>>> distributable - i.e. a module to allow people to make and distribute
>>>>>>> the look&feel of the desktop (things like the bg and arrangement
>>>>>>> of various gadgets on virtual desktops, etc).
>>>>>>> Along with some new, cool gadgets (or extensions of some
>>>>>>> current ones, like allowing for the main menu to hold other gadgets)
>>>>>>> this would be a very attractive selling feature for E distributions...
>>>>>>> Designers and normal users can make or download all sorts of
>>>>>>> nice 'shell-themes' just as they now do with ordinary E themes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As with every Bodhi release, the trolls really come out with regards
>>>>>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Enlightenment theme. Some real gems over here ->
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2015/02/bodhi-linux-300-available-for-download.html
>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Tom Hacohen <
>>>>>>>>
>>> tom.haco...@samsung.com>
>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 17/02/15 09:25, Jeff Hoogland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First Bodhi stable release featuring an Ubuntu 14.04 core and the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> E19
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> destkop.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.bodhilinux.com/2015/02/17/bodhi-linux-3-0-0-release/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm an Arch user myself, but I still love and appreciate your work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Glad to have you back. :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tom.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>
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