Though autonomous cars aren't yet up to human standards in all environments, 
they surpass human standards in many -- and there's little question but that 
it's not long before the safety of autonomous cars is significantly superior to 
that of human drivers. Will there be situations where Mario Andretti could 
avoid a wreck that the robot won't be able to? Certainly. Would Andretti be 
able to avoid a much less challenging wreck after a 20-hour non-stop (not even 
for the restroom, let alone sleep) haul? Doubtful.

There isn't a taxi company in the world that wouldn't fire all its drivers 
instantly without hesitation in favor of $50,000 robots. Maybe some white-glove 
limo companies would keep the drivers the same way some hotels still have 
bellhops, and the diplomatic / police escort services would still need a 
combat-ready driver behind the wheel. But that $50,000 robot would pay for 
itself in just a few months and result in undreamt-of hundreds of percent 
quarterly and annual profit gains.

Now, would I personally rather live in a society with most of today's 
professional drivers out of a job? Well, that depends. If the profits from 
productivity gains go straight to the pockets of the 1%, no, that's not the 
society I want to live in. But if the wealth gets spread around, and if the 
eternal promise actually comes true and those drivers get a chance to become 
artists and athletes and poets and what-not as their dreams dictate, then I'd 
be all for it. But we as a society abhor the thought of widespread leisure and 
insist that only the 1% deserve the chance to follow their dreams...

...which means that it's only a matter of time before those drivers are mostly 
unemployed, like it or lump it.

b&

On Aug 6, 2014, at 3:20 PM, Dennis Miles via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> As I see it the problems with autonomous cars is the estimated $50.000
> EXTRA they will cost to purchase, their proven inability to safely drive in
> city traffic, without human supervision.  And the resulting loss of jobs
> (and the consequential unemployment.) for usurping taxi drivers, Limo
> drovers, Bus drivers, and Chauffeurs jobs which could  have been created or
> preserved by not adopting an autonomous vehicle and human drivers cost less
> per year also. In your scenario the car comes into the city to bring you
> home, although a Taxi and driver can do that even today, an autonomous car
> has to have human supervision in cities, so it can not. (Having been a Taxi
> and Handicapped Van driver from 2005-6-7-8 I have a definitive point of
> view.
> 
> Dennis Lee Miles
> 
> (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com <evprofes...@evprofessor.com>)*
> 
> * Founder:    **EV Tech. Institute Inc.*
> 
> *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*
> 
> *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
> intelligent enough,  **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*
> 
> *          You Tube Video link:  http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
> <http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss> *
> 
> *    NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
> <http://youtu.%20be/Pz9-TZtySh8>
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> While I agree that there are some strong political and job transition
>> issues that will arrive with autonomous cars, I completely disagree that
>> they will be unnecessary.
>> 
>> Possible benefits:
>> - take transit in the morning, stay late, call for your car at 10pm to
>> pick you up;
>> - intoxicated; let the car drive
>> - share a ride to a event, need to leave early, call car to pick up up.
>> 
>> And so on...
>> 
>> In particular, I think they could be a boon for public transit.  So many
>> people take a car during the morning rush hour because they need to do
>> something after work.  Imagine instead that they take public transit in the
>> morning, which results in less vehicles on the road and, in the evening
>> when the traffic has died down, their car can come and get them.  Also
>> saves on parking space construction and cost to use.
>> 
>> 
>> Peri
>> 
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Dennis Miles via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> To: "Ben Goren" <b...@trumpetpower.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
>> List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> Sent: 06-Aug-14 2:16:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i3 EV self-parks> driver climbs out of window to
>> prove (video)
>> 
>> Autonomous cars and wireless charging are two job destroyers at an
>>> excessive cost. Both New Jersey and Oregon have thousands of labor jobs at
>>> minimum wage for fuel (Gasoline) pump operators, (NO "self service" pumps!
>>> ) I have said before self driving autonomous autos are unnecessary and
>>> motivation for their use is only from profit motive if the manufacturers.
>>> A
>>> "Chauffeur" to drive your car or a Taxi and Driver or Limo and driver are
>>> less expensive than paying $50,000 for one of the autonomous vehicles for
>>> personal use. and replacing a Truck Driver is an economic loss for the
>>> freight business. Drivers are more versatile and have a proven safety
>>> record. A human being can make a decision based upon experience and
>>> training and intuition which a computer cannot match. If you want to move
>>> freight less expensively make an investment in rail-road infrastructure.
>>> 
>>> Dennis Lee Miles
>>> 
>>> (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com <evprofes...@evprofessor.com>)*
>>> 
>>> * Founder: **EV Tech. Institute Inc.*
>>> 
>>> *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*
>>> 
>>> *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
>>> intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*
>>> 
>>> * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
>>> <http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss> *
>>> 
>>> * NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
>>> <http://youtu.%20be/Pz9-TZtySh8>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Ben Goren via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> expecting the car to plug itself into a wall outlet / cable is
>>>> asking
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> bit much.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can easily imagine a robot arm that can reach out, find and
>>>> connect
>>>> to some
>>>>>>> contacts mounted somehow on the front license plate area.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> That's a lot of moving parts to break, especially considering how
>>>> many
>>>> people
>>>>>> have trouble not running over things in the garage already. Plus the
>>>> hazard
>>>>>> of people or pets or other things getting caught up in the mechanism.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This strikes me as a non-problem that keeps getting elevated into
>>>> something much bigger and more complicated than it needs to be.
>>>> 
>>>> I think you're right. What's exciting to me is that two technological
>>>> advances are starting to mature at the same time, and that the two of
>>>> the
>>>> together will potentially be much more significant than either would be
>>>> separately.
>>>> 
>>>> ICE and EV cars are both equally well suited to autonomous driving, but
>>>> EV
>>>> cars are _much_ better suited to autonomous recharging than ICE cars
>>>> are to
>>>> autonomous refueling.
>>>> 
>>>> At-home EV recharging is already more than plenty good enough for all
>>>> but
>>>> the idle super-rich. At-home charging isn't merely a solved problem; it
>>>> never really was a problem in the first place.
>>>> 
>>>> On-the-go EV recharging is only a problem when the miles driven in a day
>>>> are greater than the miles the car gets on an overnight charge. Save for
>>>> road trips, the Tesla is already there and others will soon follow as
>>>> battery prices continue to drop. And plugin hybrids such as the Volt
>>>> and my
>>>> Mustang project also have that problem "well enough" solved; if most
>>>> people
>>>> only filled up their gas tanks a few times a year rather than a few
>>>> times a
>>>> month, many (but not all) of our fossil fuel problems would magically go
>>>> away.
>>>> 
>>>> What EVs do at this time when many new cars can already drive themselves
>>>> in limited ways is open up the possibility for fleets of fully
>>>> autonomous
>>>> nearly maintenance-free magic carpets. _That's_ the exciting bit. How
>>>> they
>>>> wind up charging themselves isn't something anybody other than the mass
>>>> market manufacturers really need to worry about.
>>>> 
>>>> b&
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>>> 
>>> 
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