Actually, in the big picture it is true - EVs consume fossil fuels. Even if all the power to operate them comes from solar, please consider:
- energy to design and manufacture the vehicle,
- energy and materials to provide charging infrastruture (i.e. your solar panels)
- energy and materials for roads
- energy wasted indirectly as a result of traffic congestion.

All said, EVs are fantastic but there's no question that the best way to use less energy, including fossil fuels, is to *not* drive!


------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" <>
To: "Robert Bruninga" <>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Sent: 15-Sep-14 8:27:15 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrifying Large Vehicles> converting buyers to a higher mpge design (and fossil free)

I track our cars' power usage and our grid-intertie solar power generation, and we generate, on an annual average, seventeen times as much as our two cars use. So we're only using hydrocarbons in so far as everything's fungible, and thirty-four other cars are using our solar power.


On Sep 15, 2014, at 10:59, "Robert Bruninga via EV" <> wrote:

 ...then no one should be driving at ALL.
Even an EV derives it's power from fossil sources in one way or another.

Whoaa, that is simply not true (though the right wing media would like us
 to believe it).

Studies have shown that at least HALF of all people who purchase an EV
 either have solar or buy their electricity from 100% clean renewable
providers such as solar or wind. And most of those that don't have that
 option say they WOULD if their local power company offered it.

It is no coincidence that most of those people who buy EV's are also the
 motivated people who buy 100% clean renewable energy if they can.

My EV is 100% free of fossil fuel (we have total solar at our house). We have reduced our fossil fuel energy consumption from over 3000 gallons equivalent per year down to 300. That is a 10-to-1 reduction. That last
 300 gallons per year is for the Prius that we keep for trips beyond
routine EV range. See a plot of how we went from 3000 gal to 300 in just
 the last few years (about 50% down this page:)

And the amazing thing is that switching to solar and EV's is CHEAPER than just continuing to burn coal and oil to oblivion. This weekend, I just added another 3 kW array to my house for a total of 14 kW (and another 3
 kW in the driveway awaiting non-honey-do time). Cost of this last 3kW
 (DIY) is on the order of 90 cents a watt or about $2700 including the
inverter. And will generate about $500 a year in return. That is a 26% return on investment per year for the rest of my life.... Compare 26% ROI
 to savings at 1% or the stock market at 6%. And this 26% "ROI" will
actually go UP every time the cost of energy goes up.... It makes no sense
 not to invest in solar if you have sun!

PS, most people will not need an array this big. My house is 90+ years old, and consumes probably twice what an average modern house consumes, so
 most people would not need more than about a 10kw array.

Not bragging, just showing that it can be done, and is cheaper in the long
 run than doing nothing.

The things that are certain in live are Death, Taxes and Utilities. The one thing you can't solve is death, but you can sure reduce your taxes by
 30% and eliminate utilities for the rest of your life by going solar!

 Bob, Wb4aPR
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (

For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (

For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 

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