Bob,if you go to this web page, you can get the BP Statistical review of world 
energy, 2017, with a lot of data.You can see how PV is increasing, whom is 
installing (countries) etc, wind, oil, etcDownloads | Statistical Review of 
World Energy | Energy economics | BP


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|  | 
Downloads | Statistical Review of World Energy | Energy economics | BP


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If you go to this page from Lawrence Livermore National Labs, you can see a 
graphical Sankey diagram of energy use, and waste for mostly the US, with 
inputs of PV, hydro, nuclear, wind, coal, natural gas, oil/petroleum, biomass, 
geothermal and outputs (there is a lot of wasted energy, 79% of input for 
transportation is wasted/rejected energy,
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy/downloads.html





    On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 11:17:12 PM EST, Robert Bruninga via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:  
 
 What has changed in the years since that data was valid is that Wind is now
cheaper than even wholesale coal or natual gas.
Stop hanging onto the past... solar and wind are here for those open to
change.  And it is cheaper.  Solar coming in at under 2 cents per kWh in
the last large solar array in South America.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 7:00 PM, jim--- via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

>
> Absolutely.  At least around here, the renewable sourced electricity goes
> into the system regardless.  It is not a controllable source (other than
> opening breakers - which does not happen).  And at the wholesale level, the
> utilities pay a very high price for that power.  Here is a very simplified
> hypothetical example.  If 90% of the non-renewable power costs $50 per
> MegaWattHour, 9% costs $60 per MWH and 1% costs $400 per MWH, the renewable
> gets paid at the $400 rate, and the electric utilities have no choice in
> the price of if they buy it - they are required to.  It matter absolutely
> none whether anyone pays a "green power" rate.  As several people pointed
> out, if more people pay for the "green" energy, it can have the political
> affect that I alluded to, but that his not likely to have any effect on
> someone deciding to build more green power.
>
> BTW, a note that this data is a few years old, but I am not aware that it
> has changed.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Jan Steinman via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 13:59
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Jan Steinman" <j...@ecoreality.org>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smearing with coal (again)
>
>
>
> > From: "j...@k6ccc.org" <j...@k6ccc.org>
> >
> > That is such a crock - I'm talking about people paying extra to get
> "green" power. All that means is people are stupid enough to pay extra for
> something that would have been there whether they paid for it or not.
>
> Are you so certain that is the case?
>
> In our case (at least) BC Hydro does not buy third-party wind power unless
> directed to do so. The Bullfrog Power customers cause BC Hydro to purchase
> Bullfrog's power, rather than supplying Bullfrog Power customers with BC
> Hydro power.
>
> At least, that’s what everyone from Bullfrog to BC Hydro to the BC Utility
> Commission tells us. Are they lying?
>
> BC Hydro *can* throttle its dams if it buys wind power. Are you saying
> they do not do so? If not, where does the extra power go? Is the voltage
> higher than it would be if wind power were not “on line?” Would the voltage
> drop if the wind power suddenly “went away?"
>
> Can you provide some evidence that “it does not change the generation mix
> at all?”
>
> de N7JDB
>
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