The cost of fossil fuels has always had a hidden cost side that we have
been "stupid" to pay for, and continue to do so when buying the "cheaper"
fossil sourced fuels. Our health and the health of the planetary
environment are a terrible price.


On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <>

> Jim,
> Looking at microeconomics it does not make sense indeed.
> However, anyone paying extra for green power sends a signal
> to the market that green power has higher value.
> They are voting with their money.
> The market, in return, installs more green power where it might
> not have been feasible against the "dirty" power rate, so the long term
> effect is that buying green power *does* change the picture.
> Luckily, renewable power costs are ever falling and dirty power is ever
> getting
> more expensive (with slight offsets, when regulations are cut and dirty
> plants
> can run longer at lower cost to produce more pollution a bit longer)
> but eventually all dirty power will price themselves out of a fair market
> simply because it cannot compete with ever cheaper renewable energy
> that does not have the running cost of constant supply of fuel, since it is
> provided for free.
> That is why the first switch to renewables was always at places where it
> was
> difficult or expensive to supply fuel (islands, mountain tops) and over the
> years you see the economy trickle down into mainstream power provider
> territory simply because of business sense.
> EVs might affect this slightly, due to the focus on all-electric power,
> so people tend to get a trigger that if they invest in an EV, they might
> just
> as well invest in PV for more reasons than just bragging rights.
> Consumers who buy EVs for "going green/coming clean" but can't install
> solar
> might be very motivated to pay a penny extra per kWh to motivate providers
> to install more renewables.
> It is what I am doing until I can install my own solar.
> Cor.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [] On Behalf Of jim--- via EV
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 1:08 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smearing with coal (again)
> Bob said )in part):
> > The California Survey back in 2012 or so showed that 45% of all EV
> > owners
> charged from clean energy. A 2016 Survey by Ford showed that 85% of all EV
> owners charged from clean solar or subscribed for 100% renewables from
> their grid, or would when it was offered.
> That is such a crock - I'm talking about people paying extra to get
> "green" power.  All that means is people are stupid enough to pay extra for
> something that would have been there whether they paid for it or not.
> "Buying clean power" accomplishes nothing.  You are not getting any
> different power than if you weren't paying the extra, and it does not
> change the generation mix at all.  Maybe it makes people feel better, and
> it potentially helps to send a political message, but it accomplishes
> nothing.
> 73
> -----
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
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Michael E. Ross
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