Ok, both Larry and Mark are correct: hydrogen can be green.
My title was intended to reflect the current beliefs by the general
population, who doesn't seem to realize that the only way currently to
produce enough hydrogen for automobiles is from natural gas - which is
most certainly not green.
The article's title is less debatable, I think - "For Many, Hydrogen Is
the Fuel of the Future. New Research Raises Doubts." It's main point is
the same as mine but is stated without such black & white terms.
If you're arguing about the title, I accept responsibility. If you're
arguing about the main points, I stand to defend :)
Peri
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "Larry Gales" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Mark Abramowitz"
<[email protected]>
Sent: 13-Aug-21 11:31:58
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
Well, H2 is not nearly as good for cars as batteries, but truly green
H2 (created through electrolysis) certainly can be very clean and could
likely be very useful in long range transport (ships, airplanes, and
possibly long range trucks).
It turns out that a recent analysis shows that "blue" H2, produced from
natural gas with carbon capture is not clean at all, but true green H2
(from electrolysis) should be very important in the future. So the
headline:
Hydrogen isn't green at all
is very, very wrong.
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 12:31 AM Mark Abramowitz via EV
<[email protected]> wrote:
Only looking at what you posted, you draw a very false conclusion from
the data.
You’ve connected fossil hydrogen with that going into a car’s tank.
Well, yes, you can do that, much like you use fossil gas or coal to
produce electricity to run a BEV. But most hydrogen in transportation
is not fossil-derived, and the entire industry is moving towards 100%
“decarbonized” hydrogen, with most believing that “green” hydrogen
will be everywhere very soon.
I haven’t looked at the “blue hydrogen” data, so can’t critique it,
but the use of colors really confusing things because if you are
looking for GHG impacts, the most direct measure is a CI score.
Many incentives are there in transportation for 100% Renewable H2, and
while I get 90% renewable hydrogen when I fill my fuel cell electric
vehicle (they *are* electric), I look at the grid numbers and see
renewable numbers of as low as 11%, depending on the time of day. The
rest is fossil.
So who is putting out more GHGs?
This is the problem with analysis that don’t analyze the real world as
most would view the data.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 12, 2021, at 2:20 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> For Many, Hydrogen Is the Fuel of the Future. New Research Raises
Doubts.
>
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/climate/hydrogen-fuel-natural-gas-pollution.html
>
> ...
> The main stumbling block: Most hydrogen used today is extracted from
natural gas in a process that requires a lot of energy and emits vast
amounts of carbon dioxide. Producing natural gas also releases
methane, a particularly potent greenhouse gas.
> ...
> And while the natural gas industry has proposed capturing that
carbon dioxide — creating what it promotes as emissions-free, “blue”
hydrogen — even that fuel still emits more across its entire supply
chain than simply burning natural gas, according to the paper,
published Thursday in the Energy Science & Engineering journal by
researchers from Cornell and Stanford Universities.
> ...
> The researchers assumed that 3.5 percent of the gas drilled from the
ground leaks into the atmosphere, an assumption that draws on mounting
research that has found that drilling for natural gas emits far more
methane than previously known.
>
> They also took into account the natural gas required to power the
carbon capture technology. In all, they found that the greenhouse gas
footprint of blue hydrogen was more than 20 percent greater than
burning natural gas or coal for heat.
> ...
> Jack Brouwer, director of the National Fuel Cell Research Center at
the University of California, Irvine, said that hydrogen would
ultimately need to be made using renewable energy to produce what the
industry calls green hydrogen, which uses renewable energy to split
water into its constituent parts, hydrogen and oxygen. That, he said,
would eliminate the fossil and the methane leaks.
> ...
> Today, very little hydrogen is green, because the process involved —
electrolyzing water to separate hydrogen atoms from oxygen — is hugely
energy intensive. In most places, there simply isn’t enough renewable
energy to produce vast amounts of green hydrogen. (Although if the
world does start to produce excess renewable energy, converting it to
hydrogen would be one way to store it.)
> ...
>
> -----------
>
> I'm glad to see this published mainstream. People don't seem to
think about the source for hydrogen, only about the the aspect of
filling a tank in a few minutes and driving off. Long live EVs !!!
>
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
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