I will disagree with the first line in your statement “ H2 is not nearly as good for cars as batteries”, and repeat what I tell everyone - it depends. If a BEV cannot do the job, and meet the duty cycle I need, it clearly isn’t better than most anything.
When my wife needed a new car in 2015, I urged her to try one of the limited number of BEVs available as a possible option. She took one look at the specs, and said emphatically “no.” She bought a fuel cell car instead, which met her needs perfectly. For my work, the same. My driving needs would have precluded a BEV. I will say that since my wife has retired, and has different needs, I will again suggest that she consider a BEV as an option. H2 not nearly as good? No way, and I can’t understand why anyone would say that. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 13, 2021, at 11:32 AM, Larry Gales <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Well, H2 is not nearly as good for cars as batteries, but truly green H2 > (created through electrolysis) certainly can be very clean and could likely > be very useful in long range transport (ships, airplanes, and possibly long > range trucks). > > It turns out that a recent analysis shows that "blue" H2, produced from > natural gas with carbon capture is not clean at all, but true green H2 (from > electrolysis) should be very important in the future. So the headline: > > Hydrogen isn't green at all > > is very, very wrong. > >> On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 12:31 AM Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Only looking at what you posted, you draw a very false conclusion from the >> data. >> >> You’ve connected fossil hydrogen with that going into a car’s tank. Well, >> yes, you can do that, much like you use fossil gas or coal to produce >> electricity to run a BEV. But most hydrogen in transportation is not >> fossil-derived, and the entire industry is moving towards 100% >> “decarbonized” hydrogen, with most believing that “green” hydrogen will be >> everywhere very soon. >> >> I haven’t looked at the “blue hydrogen” data, so can’t critique it, but the >> use of colors really confusing things because if you are looking for GHG >> impacts, the most direct measure is a CI score. >> >> Many incentives are there in transportation for 100% Renewable H2, and while >> I get 90% renewable hydrogen when I fill my fuel cell electric vehicle (they >> *are* electric), I look at the grid numbers and see renewable numbers of as >> low as 11%, depending on the time of day. The rest is fossil. >> >> So who is putting out more GHGs? >> >> This is the problem with analysis that don’t analyze the real world as most >> would view the data. >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> >> > On Aug 12, 2021, at 2:20 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > For Many, Hydrogen Is the Fuel of the Future. New Research Raises Doubts. >> > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/climate/hydrogen-fuel-natural-gas-pollution.html >> > >> > ... >> > The main stumbling block: Most hydrogen used today is extracted from >> > natural gas in a process that requires a lot of energy and emits vast >> > amounts of carbon dioxide. Producing natural gas also releases methane, a >> > particularly potent greenhouse gas. >> > ... >> > And while the natural gas industry has proposed capturing that carbon >> > dioxide — creating what it promotes as emissions-free, “blue” hydrogen — >> > even that fuel still emits more across its entire supply chain than simply >> > burning natural gas, according to the paper, published Thursday in the >> > Energy Science & Engineering journal by researchers from Cornell and >> > Stanford Universities. >> > ... >> > The researchers assumed that 3.5 percent of the gas drilled from the >> > ground leaks into the atmosphere, an assumption that draws on mounting >> > research that has found that drilling for natural gas emits far more >> > methane than previously known. >> > >> > They also took into account the natural gas required to power the carbon >> > capture technology. In all, they found that the greenhouse gas footprint >> > of blue hydrogen was more than 20 percent greater than burning natural gas >> > or coal for heat. >> > ... >> > Jack Brouwer, director of the National Fuel Cell Research Center at the >> > University of California, Irvine, said that hydrogen would ultimately need >> > to be made using renewable energy to produce what the industry calls green >> > hydrogen, which uses renewable energy to split water into its constituent >> > parts, hydrogen and oxygen. That, he said, would eliminate the fossil and >> > the methane leaks. >> > ... >> > Today, very little hydrogen is green, because the process involved — >> > electrolyzing water to separate hydrogen atoms from oxygen — is hugely >> > energy intensive. In most places, there simply isn’t enough renewable >> > energy to produce vast amounts of green hydrogen. (Although if the world >> > does start to produce excess renewable energy, converting it to hydrogen >> > would be one way to store it.) >> > ... >> > >> > ----------- >> > >> > I'm glad to see this published mainstream. People don't seem to think >> > about the source for hydrogen, only about the the aspect of filling a tank >> > in a few minutes and driving off. Long live EVs !!! >> > >> > Peri >> > >> > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Address messages to [email protected] >> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Address messages to [email protected] >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > -- > Larry Gales -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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