William Vandenberghe writes:> On Jan 25, 3:50 am, Russell Standish <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:> > On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M wrote:> 
>> > >   PS I still would appreciate to be directed to a short text explaining 
the essence of ASSA (RSSA?). JIt is in my book. Here is the relevant excerpt:> 
>> > \section[ASSA vs RSSA]{Absolute vs Relative Self Sampl\-ing Assumption}> 
>> > In the course of a lengthy, and at times heated debate between Jacques> > 
Mallah and myself, it became clear we were always arguing from> > disparate 
positions\cite{Mallah-Standish}. At the heart of our> > difference of opinion 
was how the strong self sampling> > assumption\index{self sampling 
assumption!strong|emph} should be> > applied. Jacques Mallah assumed that each 
observer moment had an> > absolute positive measure, and that our current 
observer moment is> > selected at random from that distribution.> >> > Since I 
accept the TIME postulate,\index{TIME postulate} only the> > birth moment is 
selected at random, according to the self sampling> > assumption. Thereafter, 
each observer moment's measure can be> > determined {\em relative} to its 
predecessor by means of Born's> > rule\index{Born rule}> > (\ref{proj-prob}). 
Arguing with this notion of observer measure, first> > person immortality 
follows provided the no cul-de-sac conjecture\index{no cul-de-sac conjecture} 
is> > true.> >> > The Everything List adopted the term {\em Absolute Self 
Sampling> >   Assumption}\index{self sampling assumption!absolute|emph} to> >   
refer to Mallah's use of strong self sampling, and the {\em Relative> >   Self 
Sampling Assumption}\index{self sampling assumption!relative|emph} for the 
version I use.  Since this> >   debate took place, other debates have taken 
place between members of> >   the ``absolute'' camp, which includes such names 
as Jacques> >   Mallah,\index{Mallah, Jacques}> >   Saibal Mitra,\index{Mitra, 
Saibal} Hal Finney\index{Finney, Hal} and the ``relative'' camp which includes> 
>   Bruno Marchal,\index{Marchal, Bruno} Stathis> >   Papaioannou, and myself.> 
>> > \index{Papaioannou, Stathis}\index{Standish, Russell}> >> > Both of these 
``camps'' appear to have internally consistent pictures.> > The fact that I'm 
not currently experiencing childhood, is for me> > strong evidence that the 
ASSA is an incorrect application of the> > strong self sampling assumption.> >> 
> 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-> 
> A/Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)> > 
Mathematics                              > > UNSW SYDNEY 2052                   
      [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Australia                                
http://www.hpcoders.com.au> > 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-> 
> I think you can add me to the ASSA camp :)> > How does the fact that you're 
not experiencing childhood provide> evidence that ASSA is incorrect, as chances 
of experiencing childhood> or adulthood are both significant so I don't see why 
that would rule> out ASSA ... I kind of expected a different definition for 
RSSA as this> definition does not even solve any of the crazy paradoxes ASSA 
has ...> Well, anyway, time to look up the time postulate :)Suppose for 
simplicity that there is only one world: you live your life from birth to death 
and that's it. God reveals to you that you will live to be 100, but on your 
50th birthday he will create a zillion copies of you which will all run in 
parallel for one minute and then all but one of the copies will be instantly 
destroyed. This means that almost all of your measure will be contained in that 
one minute on your 50th birthday. You can add variations to this thought 
experiment: God planned this before you were born; God will not decide to do 
this until you are 45; God will wait until the eve of your 50th birthday and 
toss a coin to decide whether he will make the copies or not; God does not tell 
you of his decision and you have to come up with a method to test whether he 
makes the copies or not. I claim that it will be impossible to notice anything 
unusual happening at any point in your life as a result of God's action or 
inaction. The first minute of your 50th birthday will last exactly one minute 
and will feel exactly the same as the preceding and the following minute. What 
do you think the ASSA predicts you will experience? Can you design a test to 
see what God is up to if he doesn't tell you? Stathis Papaioannou
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