On 16/12/2008, at 5:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> "KIM 2" is really the "2)" of the plan. See below(*)
>
> I propose to proceed by little steps, under the form of questions.
>
> MEC is correct (by assumption). This makes the following thought
> experiment possible. You get a new job, but the job is located on the
> planet Mars, and for personal reasons you want to continue your night
> life on Earth (say).
> No problem, MEC makes possible to scan you, at the right level of
> description (or below), to annihilate you (let us say this is a legal
> obligation), to send the scanned information (containing the plan of
> your body, including the plan of your brain in its instantaneous
> state) to the planet mars (using some laser, radio waves) where there
> is a receptor and a reconstitution machine, which using the atoms in
> the martian neighborhood (re)build yourself in the relevant state,
> which, by construction, is really the state of your body 4m before on
> earth. (4m, because light takes four minutes to travel from Earth to
> Mars, as you surely know).
>
> I assume very short scanning-annihilation times and short receipting-
> reconstitution times. Hypotheses like that, or like the fact that your
> "generalized" brain is in your skull, will be eliminated explicitly
> later. The role of those hypotheses consists only in making the
> reasoning more easy.


entendu

>
>
> I assume all the usual default hypotheses: everything works fine. No
> bugs in the scanning and reconstitution processes, no asteroid hurting
> mars. The substitution level has been correctly bet, and it exists, by
> the MEC assumption. All right?


I hear this loud, computerised alarm sound bleeping! A voice is  
repeating "WARNING!! LEAP OF FAITH IMMINENT!!"


>
>
> The first question is: do you accept the job on mars, knowing that you
> will be obliged to use this teleportation machinery every morning and
> evening. I assume of course that you are interested in that job, ...


Bruno - I want the job. I need the bloody job. I copped a redundancy  
from my last employer and I have been searching on "forced vacation"  
for over a year now for The Right Job. This global recession is real.

It would truly not surprise me if it turned up on Mars. If I want to  
"continue to put food on my family" as George Bush says, I guess I had  
better go pack my bags for the teleporter
>
>
> Yes or no?   (or comments, questions, precisions, etc.)
>
> Put in another way, do you agree that if we assume MEC and the default
> hypotheses, teleportation like this is a safe mean for transporting
> oneself.


I do. I even volunteer publicly to be the first person to be fully  
teleported from Sydney to Brussels to serrer Bruno à la main

So - I KNOW I'm not allowed to ask "what about the missing 4 minutes"

BUT

consider it "not asked" again


Will I, after reconstitution, experience continuity from prior to the  
4 minutes or the discontinuity of amnesia?

"Will I dream, Doctor?"




>
>
> Here are slight variants of the same question which will be useful
> later. I suppose you, Kim, are doing the teleportation, and that I,
> Bruno, remains on Earth during that time.
> Both Kim and Bruno assumes MEC and the default assumptions. On Sunday,
> you are on Earth, Monday your job on Mars begins.
>
> Is is true that:
>
> -On Sunday, Kim believes he will find himself tomorrow on Mars. i.e.
> On Sunday, Kim believes "Tomorrow, I will find myself on Mars"


That is true but it all depends what you mean by "find"

On Sunday I also "found myself" on Earth.


How is this different to simply believing this to be true?



>
> -On Sunday, Kim believes he will be, tomorrow, on Mars. i.e. On
> Sunday, Kim believes "Tomorrow, I will be on Mars"


Both these statements mean the same thing to me



>
> -On Sunday , Bruno believes that tomorrow Kim will be on Mars.


True for me, but watch out - maybe Bruno is a charlatan and the  
machine sends me to the Tax Office



>
> -On Sunday, Bruno believes that tomorrow Kim will find himself on  
> Mars.


As above



>
> -On Monday, Bruno and Kim believes that now Kim is on the planet Mars.


Yes, unless, like Borden and Angier in "The Prestige" we are secretly  
at war with each other and manipulating cleverly each's perception of  
the other

Bruno could KNOW Kim is really on Earth (in the Tax Office) and Kim on  
Mars might be a zombie re-programmed (during the 4 minutes) to respond  
"as if" it were the real Kim.  From the perspective of my job, the  
zombie does it brilliantly and get lots of bonuses and a brilliant  
career and all the while on Earth Bruno is able to double-tax my  
income and becomes a highly-paid public servant



>
> -On Monday, Kim feels himself to be now on planet Mars.


He does. Unless he is a non-conscious though nonetheless perfectly  
convincing zombie (with negative self-awareness)



>
>
> What do you say?


WHAT ABOUT THE 4 MINUTES!!!

WHAT DID YOU DO DURING THOSE 4 MINUTES - SCOUNDREL!!!


K


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