On 21 Jan 2009, at 22:15, Kim Jones wrote:

> On 22/01/2009, at 3:50 AM, Günther Greindl wrote:
>> Kim,
>>> the uncomputability of this issue. Why should the mind be limited
>>> to the
>>> computable? Clearly it is not.
>> So you deny Step 1 again? You say no to the doctor?
> In fact I have 'multiple personality disorder' - from Thursday to
> Monday I say 'Yes' to the doctor, on Tuesday and Wednesday I am no
> longer the same personality because my medications have run out ;-)
> Well, it's Thursday here now and I have a fresh supply of anxiety-
> suppression pills,

Beware the legal drugs. They are in general more dangerous and  
addictive than some illegal one, I think.
And more expensive too.

> so I'm off to see the Doctor again!! He's talking
> about this scary Step 7 and I am starting to get sweaty palms, so in a
> fit of madness I reached into the bookshelf and drew out a Penrose
> volume which seemed to suggest I might do better to have a cup of tea
> and a little sleep...

"Road to Reality"? It is my favorite book by Penrose, but frankly it  
is more math demanding than the step seven.
A little sleep is always good.

>>> Could an AI conceive of Platonia?
>> Why not?
> Well, this particular AI which calls itself Kim can conceive of it, so
> I guess all other AIs could....unless there is a special class of AI
> that can only conceive of computables?

Once you conceive the computable, you conceive the uncomputable. Some  
intuitionist could argue differently, but they are talking on  
something else. Once you develop enough intuition of the finite, you  
grasp the infinite.

> Perhaps I should put "Road to
> Reality" back on the bookshelf for now!
> Bring on the advanced Theology

Kim, do you understand how a computer work?
Do you have a complete understanding of that? I mean, could you build  
a computer by yourself in case you are lost and isolated in a jungle  
with a lot plants, but without animals, nor electricity? I am not  
asking you to build an efficient computer ....
I will bring you to that understanding.
Unfortunately I am used to explain that kind of things by doing a lot  
of drawings, which I cannot do in mail. So I suggest you put Penrose's  
"Road to reality" in the shelves indeed, and that you print instead  
the following 31 pages pdf:


It is the first chapter of my belgium thesis. It is written in french,  
but we will need only the drawings from page UN-16 to un-24. (You can  
try to print only those pages).

I will soon create a new thread for that purpose. You don't need math  
to understand how a computer works. On the contrary, that  
understanding will lead you to the math in some natural way. All  
right? This is needed to understand the "advanced theology of the  
machine" :)



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