# Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

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On 11 Mar 2009, at 02:25, Günther Greindl wrote:```
```
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
>>> The idea was that the numbers encode moments which don't have
>>> successors
>>> (the guy who transports), that's why there exist alien-OMs encoded
>>> in
>>> numbers which destroy all the machines (if we assume that arithmetic
>>> is
>>> consistent).
>>
>> Hmmm.... (Not to clear for me, I guess I miss something. I can build
>> to much scenario from you say here).
>
> Ok:
>
> if you make OM's correspond to numbers, then QI holds if for all OM's
> (encoded by some n) there are some (at least one) f(n) so that it is a
> continuation.

Only 3-OM correspond to (relative) number. I prefer to call them
"states" or "worlds".
1-OM, (by step 7, correspond to infinity (aleph_zero)  of 3-OMs,
themselves embedded in bigger infinities (2^aleph_zero) of
computations going trough their corresponding states.
Between you-in-the-living room, and you-in-the-kitchen there is

>
>
> If the aliens destroy all the reconstitution machines (and the person
> beaming over does not find the beaming to have failed), this would
> mean
> that there exists a number n (=OM) for which there is no f(n) which
> encodes a continuation.

The alien should be able to shut down the universal dovetailer. By
step 8, they have to shut down elementary arithmetic. If they can do
that from inside elementary arithmetic, it means elementary arithmetic
is inconsistent. Robinson arithmetic would be inconsistent.

>
>
>
> So there can't both be a continuation OM (f(n) for n) _and_ aliens
> destroying _all_ the machines in the multiverse - which would say
> there
> is _no_ such f(n), for some given n (the teleportation n).
>
> Maybe the confusion arises because we are talking on 2 levels: the
> platonic view (numbers) and the inside view (OMs). What is
> determined in
> the one (platonic relations) decides what is possible in the OMs.

The 3-OM are determined in the little arithmetical Platonia. The 1-OM
of the humans lives in the first person plenitude, which escapes
provably (assuming the humans to be machine) the humans mathematics.
But the 1-OM of a simpler (than us) Lobian machine, like "Peano
Arithmetic" is still tractable by a much richer Lobian machine like
"Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory".

I think you (momentarily perhaps?) forget the full consequence of the
seventh uda step. You, in the next instant, is literally determined by
a continuum of computations+oracles executed by the UD. Thanks to
empirical QM, we have good "objective" (sharable) reason we share most
of those histories.

Best regards,

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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