Thanks, Russell, I am gladly standing corrected about our fellow smart animals. HOWEVER: We speak about a "self-awareness" as we, humans identify it in our human terms and views. Maybe other animals have different mental capabilities we cannot pursue or understand, as adjusted to their level of complexity usable in their 'menatality'. It may - or may not - be only according to their number of neurons as our conventional sciences teach. Or some may use senses we are deficient in, maybe totally ignorant about. (We have a deficient smelling sense as compared to a dog and missing orientation's senses of some birds, fish, turtle)
In our anthropocentric boasting we believe that only our human observations are 'real'. Thanks for setting me straight John. On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 06 May 2011, at 18:43, Brent Meeker wrote: [On the everything list] > > On 5/5/2011 11:18 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 03:31:50PM -0400, John Mikes wrote: > > > > Russell, > > > this is my personal way of thinking in realization of the continual > > epistemic enrichment what earlier authors missed. I do not vouch for > > correctness of my ideas, they are like a level in an advancement I found > > followable in view of the latest epistemic additions in a continuously > > changing world(view). > > Self-awareness is definitely at the level of human complexity. > > > > There is evidence of self-awareness in a handful of other species, > > including most of the great apes, bottlenose dolphins and asian > > elephants. Many of these same species appear capable of developing > > rudimentary language capability. > > > I would not be surprised to see a number of other species also show > > evidence of self-awareness in time - including some birds, and maybe > > even some cephalopods. However, I am also equally sure that most > > species are incapable of it - too many species fail the tests we pose > > of them. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > > Principal, High Performance Coders > > Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > http://www.theonion.com/video/scientists-successfully-teach-gorilla-it-will-die,17165/ > > > Hard to really conclude from one video, but it is still very interesting. I > forward it on the FOR list where some people argue that non human animals > are not conscious. This video illustrates that some non-human mammals might > even be *self-conscious*, and thus probably "Löbian". > Next step: we should give some salvia to the gorilla, so that he could > begin to doubt the "body-picture" argument for their own end, because, in > that video, the gorilla might just have been brainwashed to take its end for > granted, from some (third person) pictures. This shows how much > self-consciousness can delude us and makes us confusing first person views > and third person descriptions. Of course such an illusion/confusion are > reasonable from a darwinian short term struggle of life perspective. > The more you have neurons, the more you *can* be deluded, and 'nature" > exploits that fact. > > David Nyman replied: > > On the other hand: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCYGm1vMJ0 > > > Well, yes, this is definitely convincing :) > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
