Oh yeah and in response to Bruno's supposed apriori platonic forms... a doctrine that Plato himself probably didn't believe in..... I want to assert that all mathematics is based on linguistical operations dependent on the social context of thinking minds and self-constructed extensions/glyphs abstracted from physical/geometric/terrestial perceptions.
I want to assert that if you read Plato and the Neo-Platonists.... including Proclus... there is no coherent Platonic Theology.... There is no actual and completed Platonic Theology to which you can refer. There are multiple interpretations and multiple construction-experiments. Plato's Theology was simply a basic intuition dimly articulated with difficulty. On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Constantine Pseudonymous <bsor...@gmail.com > wrote: > how do you leap from non-doer to non-doing and unconsciousness? > > On Jul 3, 10:30 pm, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:32 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have > been > > > but consciousness that caused you to think about it" > > > > > Are you saying consciousness literally causes you to objectify > > > consciousness? Consciousness as a base is required to reflect on > > > consciousness... the question is whether consciousness can truly be > > > objectified or only falsely so. > > > > There appears to be some confusion. This is what I am saying: > > > > Selva asked if consciousness is causally effective. My response is a > > thought experiment designed to show that it is: > > > > 1. Assume consciousness is not causally effective > > 2. It follows that consciousness has no effects > > 3. If consciousness has no effects, then whether present or not it makes > do > > difference in what happens > > 4. Consider a universe identical to this one only without any > consciousness > > (this is possible only in the case where consciousness is causally inert) > > 5. This universe would have zombie humans that talk about consciousness, > > that appear to wonder about consciousness, that write e-mail threads > about > > consciousness, and so on, yet all this is happening in a universe where > > consciousness does not exist. > > 6. It seems odd that there would be zombies talking and wondering about > > consciousness in a universe where there is no such thing as > consciousness. > > > > If on the other hand, consciousness is causally effective, as I believe > it > > is, then zombie universes cannot be identical to our own. Perhaps you > see > > nothing wrong with a zombie universe with beings wondering about > > consciousness, but if you do, then you should doubt the assumption made > at > > step 1. > > > > Jason > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.