how do you leap from non-doer to non-doing and unconsciousness? On Jul 3, 10:30 pm, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:32 PM, B Soroud <[email protected]> wrote: > > "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have been > > but consciousness that caused you to think about it" > > > Are you saying consciousness literally causes you to objectify > > consciousness? Consciousness as a base is required to reflect on > > consciousness... the question is whether consciousness can truly be > > objectified or only falsely so. > > There appears to be some confusion. This is what I am saying: > > Selva asked if consciousness is causally effective. My response is a > thought experiment designed to show that it is: > > 1. Assume consciousness is not causally effective > 2. It follows that consciousness has no effects > 3. If consciousness has no effects, then whether present or not it makes do > difference in what happens > 4. Consider a universe identical to this one only without any consciousness > (this is possible only in the case where consciousness is causally inert) > 5. This universe would have zombie humans that talk about consciousness, > that appear to wonder about consciousness, that write e-mail threads about > consciousness, and so on, yet all this is happening in a universe where > consciousness does not exist. > 6. It seems odd that there would be zombies talking and wondering about > consciousness in a universe where there is no such thing as consciousness. > > If on the other hand, consciousness is causally effective, as I believe it > is, then zombie universes cannot be identical to our own. Perhaps you see > nothing wrong with a zombie universe with beings wondering about > consciousness, but if you do, then you should doubt the assumption made at > step 1. > > Jason
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