On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:32 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "if you are thinking about consciousness, then what else could it have been
> but consciousness that caused you to think about it"
> Are you saying consciousness literally causes you to objectify
> consciousness? Consciousness as a base is required to reflect on
> consciousness... the question is whether consciousness can truly be
> objectified or only falsely so.

There appears to be some confusion.  This is what I am saying:

Selva asked if consciousness is causally effective.  My response is a
thought experiment designed to show that it is:

1. Assume consciousness is not causally effective
2. It follows that consciousness has no effects
3. If consciousness has no effects, then whether present or not it makes do
difference in what happens
4. Consider a universe identical to this one only without any consciousness
(this is possible only in the case where consciousness is causally inert)
5. This universe would have zombie humans that talk about consciousness,
that appear to wonder about consciousness, that write e-mail threads about
consciousness, and so on, yet all this is happening in a universe where
consciousness does not exist.
6. It seems odd that there would be zombies talking and wondering about
consciousness in a universe where there is no such thing as consciousness.

If on the other hand, consciousness is causally effective, as I believe it
is, then zombie universes cannot be identical to our own.  Perhaps you see
nothing wrong with a zombie universe with beings wondering about
consciousness, but if you do, then you should doubt the assumption made at
step 1.


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