>> Sounds like a fancy cash register to me.

>Better than magic topology.

A fictive topology explains the desire for magic, but a cash register
has no desire. How complicated does the cash register have to be
before it invents the idea of magic? If the cash register reproduces
itself, would baby registers be more imaginative than adults?

>A neuron doesn't see anything.  They don't have a "point of view".

How many neurons do there have to be before they collectively develop
one? Where does it come from?

>If behavoir is independent of context it isn't even intelligent, much
>less conscious.

So then why are you so sure that it cannot depend on a specific
molecular context?

>That's like asking how many NP junctions have to added to make a
>computer.  It's a matter of organization, not just numbers.

If a towel was sufficiently long, and existed for a long enough time,
would it eventually become conscious If it were tied enough knots in
just the right organization? How about a game? If we made a game with
enough rules and dice throws, would the game itself eventually become
a conscious entity?

Craig

On Jul 20, 9:06 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 7/20/2011 4:44 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
> > Since it's not possible to know what the point of view of biological
> > neurons would be, we can't rule out the contents of the cell.
>
> A neuron doesn't see anything.  They don't have a "point of view".
>
> > You
> > can't presume to know that behavior is independent of context.
>
> If behavoir is independent of context it isn't even intelligent, much
> less conscious.
>
> > If you
> > consider the opposite scenario, at what point do you consider a
> > microelectronic configuration conscious? How many biological neurons
> > does it take added to a computer before it has it's own agenda?
>
> That's like asking how many NP junctions have to added to make a
> computer.  It's a matter of organization, not just numbers.
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 20, 6:58 pm, Stathis Papaioannou<stath...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Craig Weinberg<whatsons...@gmail.com>  
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Chickens can walk around for a while without a head also. It doesn't
> >>> mean that air is a viable substitute for a head, and it doesn't mean
> >>> that the head isn't producing a different quality of awareness than it
> >>> does under typical non-mortally wounded conditions.
>
> >> I think you have failed to address the point made by several people so
> >> far, which is that if the replacement neurons can interact with the
> >> remaining biological neurons in a normal way, then it is not possible
> >> for there to be a change in consciousness. The important thing is
> >> **behaviour of the replacement neurons from the point of view of the
> >> biological neurons**.
>
> >> --
> >> Stathis Papaioannou

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