On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
> ** > On 7/21/2011 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 7/21/2011 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Axiomatics are already in Platonia so of course that forces computation >>>> to be there. >>>> >>> >>> The computations are concrete relations. >>> >> >> If the are concrete then we should be able to point to them. >> >> > If your mind is a computer, you don't even need to point to them, > everything you see and experience is direct evidence of the existence of the > computation implementing your mind. > > Also, I don't think the "point test" works for everything that has a > concrete existence. How would a many-worlder point to the other branches of > the wave function, or an eternalist point to the past? How would an AI or > human in a virtual environment point to the concrete computer that is > rendering its environment? > > >> >> They don't need axioms to exist. Then the numbers relation can be >>> described by some axiomatic. >>> >> >> And one can regard the numbers as defined by their relations. So the >> "fundamental ontology" of numbers is reduced to a description of relations. > > > Is a chair the same thing as a description of a chair, or an idea of a > chair? > > >> The is no need to suppose they exist in the sense of tables and chairs. > > > Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the existence of > number relations explains the existence of matter, > > > That's the question. It seems that comp requires more than the existence > of number relations, it requires the existence of a UD or equivalent. > The Fibonacci sequence is, 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144... It is defined by the simple number relation Fib(n) = Fib(n-1) + Fib(n-2). This is a simple recursive definition. You might even say the number line has a simple recursive definition, where Number(n) = Number(n-1) + 1. Different recursive definitions result in different sequences of numbers (different ways of progressing through the integers). In some of these definitions, bits patterns (within the number) may move around in well defined ways, some of these bit patterns become self-reproducing, and may even evolve into more complex bit patterns, which are better able to reproduce themselves. Some of these bit patterns may even evolve consciousness, as they build brains which attempt to discern and predict future observations of bit patterns within the number. Let's call this function Universe. There may be bit patterns (life forms) in Universe(n) which improve their survival or reproductive success by correctly predicting parts of Universe(n+x). There are number relations which define such sequences of numbers; you cannot deny their existence without denying the Fibonacci sequence or the number line (these are just simpler instances of recursive relations). Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
