On Aug 4, 1:53 am, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:50 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Because we are human and we know that we are conscious so we can
> > assume that other things which resemble us are also human and also
> > conscious. I wouldn't assume any such thing for a machine.
>
> There is no way to be sure other humans are conscious. In fact, even
> you might not be conscious. I assume you think you're conscious, but
> you would still think that if you had a consciousness-destroying
> (according to you) brain lesion that left your neurons functioning
> normally, such as inactivation of DNA. It might have happened a minute
> ago to most of your brain; how could you know that it had not?

> In fact, even
> you might not be conscious.

It is not possible to doubt that you are conscious, because doubt
itself is a form of consciousness.

> I assume you think you're conscious, but
> you would still think that if you had a consciousness-destroying
> (according to you) brain lesion that left your neurons functioning
> normally, such as inactivation of DNA.

No, that's the opposite of what I am saying. If your neurons are not
functioning normally, ie, reduced your brain to the status of a random
organ or silicon chip, you would not think you're conscious; 'you'
would not think.

>It might have happened a minute
> ago to most of your brain; how could you know that it had not?

That's where the 3p position breaks down into absurdity. The whole
point of what I've been saying here is that we should each, in our own
minds recognize that idea as a fallacy, follow it back to it's origin,
and rip it out by the roots so we can't ever make the mistake of
naively thinking it again . It doesn't matter if there is a brain
lesion cause to our experience, consciousness is just as much of a
hallucination whether or not it corresponds to some exterior
reference, because experience doesn't 'exist', it insists. Descartes
wasn't right about everything, but the reason that the cogito still
resonates with it's powerful simple truth, is that it cannot be
denied.

Once you have a foothold on this immutable fact, you can reconcile it
with the immutable facts of science and realize that they are a mirror
image of each other rather than a phenomenon-epiphenomenon. They occur
on the same phenomenon~phenomenon equivalence level. Existence is a
form of insistence, and insistence is a form of existence. They are a
single involuted continuum, but they are never the same thing within a
single PRIF (Perceptual Relativity Inertial Frame) so that my
subjective sensorimotive experience can only look like the consequence
of electromagnetic activity to you. This is how the cosmos works. This
is the solution to the mind-body problem.

 It's up to you now, whether to interiorize this idea, to under-stand
(settle within you) it as your own truth, or to see it as an enemy
idea - a threat to the self which must be defended against through
accusation or inference, suspicion, literalism, intolerance,
sophistry, etc. All of these tools will help restore your interiority
to a state of satisfaction, to reassure you that surely this idea has
no place in pretending at truth. If, however, you apply the spirit of
science rather than the letter, you might be obliged to run your
counter-examples in reverse. What idea is it that you are actually
defending?

What if you pretend I'm right and argue it that way, just out of
curiosity to see if you might have some confirmation bias? Treat your
own views as you would astrology. Assume that you only believe what
you believe because evolutionary biology has wound up making you as an
entity that thinks it wants to win a debate; because he thinks it will
get him food and sex, and that his opinion on it is the meaningless
arithmetic of a protein and sugar machine designed to keep it's body
alive. If I want you to believe what I'm saying, I have only to modify
your behavior, mechanically, or with reward & punishment conditioning
so that you will act like you believe it. How will you know that you
don't believe it?

The universe leaves it up to you. If you want to doubt that your life
exists, you are free to do that. You can imagine that you are a
transparent, egoless window of logical observation on the universe,
and because of how the cosmos works, your observations will support
that. It's not a coincidence. If you want to imagine that you are the
universe, and that every moment of your life is part of a divine
order, and that your thoughts are connected with that order directly,
your expectations will be supported in that too. 'What the thinker
thinks, the prover proves.'

Craig
http://s33light.com

Craig

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