On Wed, Feb 8, 2012  <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Since it is predictable, it is deterministic


> since it is determiniistic it is no free.

Cannot comment because your definition of free will was nonsensical and the
problem seems to be more with the "free" part than the "will" part. I have
no problem with "will", it's a perfectly clear concept, but whenever
somebody hooks it up with the F word things turn into gibberish.

> Feeling free is not being free. That was bait and switch.

I know what it means to feel free, not knowing what I will do next; but I
don't know what you mean by "being free".

>>  To have any hope of free will making any sense you've got to turn
>> around our definition by 180 degrees.
> You are confusing makign sense with agreeing with your prejudices.

No, I'm talking about the difference between being self contradictory and
not being self contradictory.
It's not as if I disagree with your definition, it's not good enough to
allow disagreement, its gibberish.

> Indeterminism is compatible with doing things for reasons


> because reasons are final causes

OK, but that "final cause" happened for a reason or it did not happen for a
reason and if the name is appropriate and it really is final then there are
no more causes in the chain and the final cause happened for no reason. In
other words the final cause was random.

>whereas indeterminism only means lack of efficient causes.

All that means is that the efficient cause and the final cause are the same
thing; if the chain of "what causes that?" is not infinite (and there is no
logical reason it couldn't be) then eventually you will always find a case
where the efficient cause is the final cause.

> Causes are not reasons.

Yes, one has 6 letters and the other has 7.

 John K Clark

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to