2012/2/24 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> On Feb 23, 9:41 pm, Pierz <pier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Let us suppose you're right and... but hold on! We can't do that. That
> > would be "circular". That would be sneaking in the assumption that
> > you're right from the outset. That would be "shifty', "fishy", etc
> > etc. You just don't seem to grasp the rudiments of philosophical
> > reasoning.
> I understand that it seems that way to you.
> > 'Yes doctor' is not an underhand move.
> Not intentionally.
> > It asks you up-front
> > to assume that comp is true in order then to examine the implications
> > of that, whilst acknowledging (by calling it a 'bet') that this is
> > just a hypothesis, an unprovable leap of faith.
> I think that asking for an unprovable leap of faith in this context is
> philosophically problematic since the purpose of computation is to
> make unprovable leaps of faith unnecessary.
> > You complain that
> > using the term 'bet' assumes non-comp (I suppose because computers
> > can't bet, or care about their bets), but that is just daft.
> Saying 'that is just daft' to something which is clearly the honest
> truth in my estimation doesn't persuade me in the slightest.
> >You might
> > as well argue that the UDA is invalid because it is couched in natural
> > language, which no computer can (or according to you, could ever)
> > understand. If we accepted such arguments, we'd be incapable of
> > debating comp at all.
> That would be ok with me. I don't see anything to debate with comp,
> because I understand why it seems like it could be true but actually
> > Saying 'no' to the doctor is anyone's right - nobody forces you to
> > accept that first step or tries to pull the wool over your eyes if you
> > choose to say 'yes'. Having said no you can then either say "I don't
> > believe in comp because (I just don't like it, it doesn't feel right,
> > it's against my religion etc)" or you can present a rational argument
> > against it.
> Or you can be rationally skeptical about it and say "It has not been
> proved" or "I see through the logic and understand the error in its
> > That is to say, if asked to justify why you say no, you
> > can either provide no reason and say simply that you choose to bet
> > against it - which is OK but uninteresting - or you can present some
> > reasoning which attempts to refute comp. You've made many such
> > attempts, though to be honest all I've ever really been able to glean
> > from your arguments is a sort of impressionistic revulsion at the idea
> > of humans being computers,
> That is your impressionistic revulsion at the idea of stepping outside
> the entrenched positions of the argument. I have no revulsion
> whatsoever at the idea of humans being computers. As I have mentioned
> several times, I have believed in comp for most of my life, for the
> same reasons that you do. I am fine with being uploaded and digitized,
> but I know now why that won't work. I know exactly why.
Then explain *exactly why* you know it. I'm not interrested to know you
> > yet one which seems founded in a
> > fundamental misunderstanding about what a computer is.
> I have been using and programming computers almost every day for the
> last 30 years. I know exactly what a computer is.
> >You repeatedly
> > mistake the mathematical construct for the concrete, known object you
> > use to type up your posts. This has been pointed out many times, but
> > you still make arguments like that thing about one's closed eyes being
> > unlike a switched-off screen, which verged on ludicrous.
> I have no confusion whatsoever discriminating between the logic of
> software, programming, and simulation and the technology of hardware,
> engineering, and fabrication. I use metaphors which draw on familiar
> examples to try to communicate unfamiliar ideas.
> The example of closed eye noise is an odd one, but no more so than
> Daniel Dennett's slides about optical illusion. With it I show that
> there are counterexamples, where our sensation reflects factual truth
> in spite of there being no advantageous purpose for it.
> > I should say I'm no comp proponent, as my previous posts should
> > attest. I'm agnostic on the subject, but at least I understand it.
> > Your posts can make exasperating reading.
> May I suggest that you stop reading them.
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