On 09.04.2012 18:58 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 09 Apr 2012, at 16:35, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
I believe that now I understand what physicalism is. What would you
recommend to read about mechanism? Something like this SEP paper about
Yes, it is a good description of physicalism. For mechanism such type of
media are not aware of the UDA argument, so you have to understand it by
yourself, by reading my papers, or this list. New idea or result take
time to be accepted, especially when they cross different
disciplinaries. I can give you many titles of books and papers---or you
can find them in the references in my thesis, or papers. But mechanism
is defended mostly by materialist and they use the mechanist assumption
mainly to burry the mind-body problem. The subject is hot, and
authoritative-argument are frequent.
I understand that but right now I would like to understand what a
mechanism is. Mechanism from a materialist viewpoint would also
interesting. After all, to make a conscious choice it is good to
consider all alternatives. But mostly I am interested to learn what
mechanism is (say theory independent).
Hence if you know something in Internet or in the written form, I would
appreciate your advice. The best about 20 pages, not too little, and not
This is why I like Gray's book where he distinguish between three
different conscious processes.
1) Reconstruction of the external world.
... that he seems to assume.
From what you said, I think Gray is still physicalist. But as I insist,
this forces him to postulate some non comp hypothesis, which nobody has
ever done, except for the theories based explicitly on fairy tales.
To be fair, some people try to develop a notion of analogical machines,
but they are all either Turing emulable, or Turing recoverable by using
the first person indeterminacy.
Gray is definitely physicalist. He recognizes though that consciousness
cannot be explained by physicalism, but the book is written in the
physicalism language. This makes it a nice antiphysicalism weapon: You
like physicalism, please read Gray's book, it is for you. In order to
convince someone you have to speak her language, otherwise it is hard.
As for reconstruction of the external world, in my view this statement
fits well the language of the 1st and 3rd person views. The 1st view is
after all how the 3rd view reality is perceived by the 1st view. In the
Gray's language the brain makes this dirty view and forms for example
conscious visual experience.
Gray says 1) this way "The World is Inside the Head".
p. 1. “For, just like those inner sensations, that world out there is
constructed by our brains and exists within our consciousness. In a very
real sense, the world as we consciously experience it is not out there
at all: it is inside each and every of us.”
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