On 30 Jun 2012, at 22:31, meekerdb wrote:

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On 6/30/2012 12:20 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 30 Jun 2012, at 18:44, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:I think that you have mentioned that mechanism is incompatiblewith materialism. How this follows then?Because concerning computation and emulation (exact simulation) alluniversal system are equivalent.Turing machine and Fortran programs are completely equivalent, youcan emulate any Turing machine by a fortran program, and you canemulate any fortran program by a Turing machine.More, you can write a fortran program emulating a universal Turingmachine, and you can find a Turing machine running a Fortranuniversal interpreter (or compiler). This means that not only thosesystem compute the same functions from N to N, but also that theycan compute those function in the same manner of the other machine.But the question is whether they 'compute' anything outside thecontext of a physical realization?

`Which is addressed in the remaining of the post to Evgenii. Exactly`

`like you can emulate fortran with Turing, a little part of arithmetic`

`emulate already all program fortran, Turing, etc. (see the post for`

`more).`

`There is no need of step 8, here. It is just a mathematical fact that`

`arithmetic emulates all programs, in the mathematical sense of`

`"emulate". Step 8 just show that adding a substantial matter cannot`

`make a difference from the machines' points of view, without adding a`

`non Turing emulable ability to the mind.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.