On 30 Jun 2012, at 22:31, meekerdb wrote:
On 6/30/2012 12:20 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 30 Jun 2012, at 18:44, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
I think that you have mentioned that mechanism is incompatible
with materialism. How this follows then?
Because concerning computation and emulation (exact simulation) all
universal system are equivalent.
Turing machine and Fortran programs are completely equivalent, you
can emulate any Turing machine by a fortran program, and you can
emulate any fortran program by a Turing machine.
More, you can write a fortran program emulating a universal Turing
machine, and you can find a Turing machine running a Fortran
universal interpreter (or compiler). This means that not only those
system compute the same functions from N to N, but also that they
can compute those function in the same manner of the other machine.
But the question is whether they 'compute' anything outside the
context of a physical realization?
Which is addressed in the remaining of the post to Evgenii. Exactly
like you can emulate fortran with Turing, a little part of arithmetic
emulate already all program fortran, Turing, etc. (see the post for
There is no need of step 8, here. It is just a mathematical fact that
arithmetic emulates all programs, in the mathematical sense of
"emulate". Step 8 just show that adding a substantial matter cannot
make a difference from the machines' points of view, without adding a
non Turing emulable ability to the mind.
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