On Apr 27, 6:13 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 4/27/2012 7:29 AM, 1Z wrote:
> > On Apr 25, 10:25 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 4/25/2012 11:45 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
> >>> On 24.04.2012 22:22 meekerdb said the following:
> >>> ...
> >>>> As I've posted before, when we know how look at a brain and infer what
> >>>> it's thinking and we know how to build a brain that behaves as we want,
> >>>> in other words when we can do consciousness engineering, the "hard
> >>>> problem" will be bypassed as a metaphysical non-question, like "Where
> >>>> did the elan vital go?"
> >>>> Brent
> >>> This is a position expressed by Jeffrey Gray as follows (he does not
> >>> share it):
> >>> ï¿½What looks like a Hard Problem will cease to be one when we have
> >>> understood the errors
> >>> in our ways of speaking about the issues involved. If the route were
> >>> successful, we
> >>> would rejoin the normal stance: once our head have been straightened out,
> >>> science could
> >>> again just get on with the job of filling in the details of empirical
> >>> knowledge.ï¿½
> >>> Evgenii
> >> I think the main mistake in formulating the 'hard problem' is thinking
> >> that we can't
> >> explain consciousness with mathematical theories like mechanics,
> >> astrophysics, quantum
> >> mechanics. The mistake isn't that we can explain consciousness, it's
> >> supposing that we
> >> can explain physics. We don't explain mechanics or gravity or
> >> electrodynamics - we have
> >> models for them that work, they are predictive and can be used to control
> >> and design
> >> things. Bruno points out that *primitive matter* doesn't add anything to
> >> physics. When
> >> asked what explained the gravitational force Newton said, "Hypothesi non
> >> fingo". Someday,
> >> consciousness will be looked at similarly.
> >> Brent
> > Is that any different to regarding cosnc. as fundamental, as dualists
> > do?
> I think it is. We don't regard elan vital as fundamental, we just gave up
> looking for
> it. We decided life is a process, not a substance.
So if I decide consc. is a process not a substance, will my pains stop
hurting and my food stop tasing and my vision stop being colourful?
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