On Apr 27, 11:49 am, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Only if there is free will. Without free will, of course compulsion is
> > the same as causation.
> Nope. We can define compulsion in terms of conscious choice by
> an agent. THat distiuishes it from blind determinism, even if it
> is deteministic itself.

What is 'conscious choice by an agent' other than free will?

> > > If someone weighs up options and makes
> > > a bad choice,
> > Then they are exercising free will.
> Not necessarily. A computer programme can weight options.

They aren't options if the program is determined to always select the
one which best matches its scripted criteria. It's not a choice.
Nothing is optional. It's mechanical. There is a computation but no
preference or conscious experience of choosing.

> > > they have not been compelled and so are responsible
> > > even if the process of choice was metaphysically deterministic.
> > Black is white, even though it is black?
> Nope. If you are not compelled. you are legally free, irrespective
> of metaphyscial determinism and indeterminism.

It sounds like you are saying that if you have no free will, you are
still free (to exercise your will)?

> > > Under determinism, it makes sense to punish a person in order to
> > > modify
> > > their behaviour.
> > Under determinism, it wouldn't matter how much sense it does or
> > doesn't make.
> In the sense that we might be determined to behave irrationally.
> But that doesn't mean we are. if we can find sense in deterministic
> behaviour, there is no need to regard it as irrational.

What would be the point in finding sense in anything in a
deterministic universe?

> >Sense is only causally efficacious if we have the
> > freedom to choose what to do with our understanding. Without free
> > will, we would have no choice but to punish or not punish, just as the
> > criminal would have no choice but to commit or not commit crimes.

> Even if we had no free choice, it can still make sense.

I've just explained why it can't.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to