On Apr 27, 11:49 am, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Only if there is free will. Without free will, of course compulsion is > > the same as causation. > > Nope. We can define compulsion in terms of conscious choice by > an agent. THat distiuishes it from blind determinism, even if it > is deteministic itself.
What is 'conscious choice by an agent' other than free will? > > > > If someone weighs up options and makes > > > a bad choice, > > > Then they are exercising free will. > > Not necessarily. A computer programme can weight options. They aren't options if the program is determined to always select the one which best matches its scripted criteria. It's not a choice. Nothing is optional. It's mechanical. There is a computation but no preference or conscious experience of choosing. > > > > they have not been compelled and so are responsible > > > even if the process of choice was metaphysically deterministic. > > > Black is white, even though it is black? > > Nope. If you are not compelled. you are legally free, irrespective > of metaphyscial determinism and indeterminism. It sounds like you are saying that if you have no free will, you are still free (to exercise your will)? > > > > Under determinism, it makes sense to punish a person in order to > > > modify > > > their behaviour. > > > Under determinism, it wouldn't matter how much sense it does or > > doesn't make. > > In the sense that we might be determined to behave irrationally. > But that doesn't mean we are. if we can find sense in deterministic > behaviour, there is no need to regard it as irrational. What would be the point in finding sense in anything in a deterministic universe? > > >Sense is only causally efficacious if we have the > > freedom to choose what to do with our understanding. Without free > > will, we would have no choice but to punish or not punish, just as the > > criminal would have no choice but to commit or not commit crimes. > Even if we had no free choice, it can still make sense. I've just explained why it can't. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.