On Sat, May 26, 2012  Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I nominate does not 'happen for a reason'

Then what you nominate is as random as it is idiotic. Idiots do things for
no reason, smart people do things for reasons.

> the reason happens for my nomination.

Read that again and explain to me what the hell it means.

> Read Bruno's answer. Free will is just will with degrees of freedom.

So free will is a will that is free and a klogknee backstanator is a
backstanator that is klogknee.

> What is wrong with that?

  I admit it's true, all circular definitions are true, but they are
somewhat lacking in usefulness.

> If you are trapped in a cage, you have will but not a lot of free will.
> Why is that so difficult to admit?

I admit that if I'm trapped in a cage I can't do what my will wants me to
do, and I admit that whatever it is my will wants me to do it does so for a
reason or it does not.

> > Without free will, there could be no important distinction between being
> a slave and being free.

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither
do you.

> > I suspect that I may have solved the hard problem of consciousness.

I'll alert the press.

>>  I admit that some things happen for no reason, some things are random.
> > So your opinions are random.

That's not what I said.

> Why debate them?

Again you're asking me the reasons I do things, you're demanding to know
what caused me to do stuff, but this time you're asking the reason there is
no reason and I have no reasonable answer except that's the way my brain is

> you are colorblind to free will,

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither
do you.

> you will have to take my word in all matters relating to free will.

NO you are entirely wrong, I don't have to do any such thing. I choose not
to take your word on the merits of that silly "free will" noise; and of one
thing you can be absolutely certain, I made that choice for a reason or I
made that choice for no reason.

> It doesn't matter what the reason is. If there really is a reason then
>> it's deterministic if there is no reason then it's random.
> > If you don't know what the reason is, then how can you claim that reason
> must be deterministic.

Because the defining characteristic of reason is determinism, if you get a
different output every time you feed in the identical input then it's not
reason and it's not deterministic.

 > conditions don't give water much opportunity to express anything like
> free will.

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither
do you.

> In what possible way is that not free will?

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither
do you.

>  my free will determines what is deterministic.

Then if this thing called "free will" determines that jumping off the 40'th
floor will not deterministically cause you to turn into a greasy splat on
the sidewalk far below then it would be safe to make such a jump. Good luck
with that.

  John K Clark

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