On Thu, May 31, 2012  meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Look up 'teleology'.

Why? I already know it means things happen for a purpose, although it is
never made clear who's purpose were talking about or what his purpose is
supposed to be. One thing is clear, they had a purpose for a reason or they
had a purpose for no reason, there is no third alternative.

> Almost any reason a person will give

If he has a reason then he is deterministic.

> for their actions will be a reference to some future state.

I did it because I desire to be in state X and I believe my present action
will bring that about; and my desire and my belief have a cause or they do
not have a cause, there is no third alternative.

> In a deterministic world all physics is time reversible

Not necessarily, in a deterministic world X and Y will always produce Z,
but Q and T could also always produce Z, so if you detect the existence of
Z you can't reverse things and figure out what the world was like in the
past, you don't know if it was a world of X and Y or a world of Q and T.
In a universe like that you could predict the future but you wouldn't know
what happened in the past. Of course this is really moot, we probably don't
live in a deterministic world, some things happen for no reason, some
things are random.

> the question is whether this reason in terms of future purpose had a
> *physical* cause.

I don't understand your emphasis, even information is physical, it
determines entropy and takes energy to manipulate.  I don't know what on
earth would a non physical cause be like but I do know that the non
physical cause would itself have a cause or it would not have a cause,
there is no third alternative.

> Believers in 'contra causal free will' suppose that it did not, that my
> 'soul' or 'spirit' initiated the physical process without any determinative
> physical antecedent.

A belief that was enormously popular during the dark ages and led to a
thousand years of philosophical dead ends; not surprising really, confusion
is inevitable if you insist on trying to make sense out of gibberish.

> they think some events are physically uncaused

So they think it had no cause

> but not-random

So they "think" it happened for no cause and didn't happen for no cause and
once again we enter into the merry world of gibberish.

> because they are purposeful.

Then the purpose is the cause, and the purpose exists for a reason or the
purpose exists for no reason, there is no third alternative.

> it is hard to eliminate the possibility that a 'spirit' might influence
> the distribution of these random events

Then of course they would not be random but determined by the spirit, and
the spirit influenced those things for a reason or for no reason, there is
no third alternative.

> I think the apparent markers of 'free will', unpredictability and
> purposefulness, are easily explained without invoking 'spirits'.

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither
do you.

  John K Clark

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