Hi Bruno Marchal 

Nothing is for sure, all I can quote are probabilties.  The improbability of 
life (based on
Hoyle's argument about the humungous improbability of the C atom being created 
by chance) 
suggests to me at least that a comp is highly improbable if it is to emulated a 
living brain.

But maybe there still exist simpler possibilities. Unlikely, but I'll grant 
that.

I thought that Hoyle's argument, succeeded by the fine-tuning of the universe 
argument, was well known.
Here's just one version of it, from

http://www.godsci.com/gs/new/finetuning.html


The Big-bang 
The explosive-force of the big-bang had to be fine-tuned to match the strength 
of gravity to one part in 10000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 
00000 00000 00000. 
This is one part in 10^60. The number 10^60 = 1 followed by 60 zeros. 
This precision is the same as the odds of a random shot (bullet from a gun) 
hitting a one-inch target from a distance of 20 billion light-years. 
Epistemic probability: 0.00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 
00000 00000 00001
The usual atheist argument against the above is that God just kept inventing 
universes until
 he got one that worked.
I think it odd that only such an improbable universe would support life (which 
needs carbon in our case).
Further, that the more improbable something is, the more likely it is that it 
was more likely created
by some sort of intelligence rather than by chance.
The fact that our universe contains life also is in accord with Leibniz's Best 
Possible Universe aregument.  

Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/16/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-15, 04:36:42
Subject: Re: Positivism and intelligence




On 14 Aug 2012, at 19:46, Roger wrote:


Hi meekerdb 

You're right, random shapes do not show evidence of intelligence.
But the carbon atom, being highly unlikely, does.


This is amazing. Carbon is a natural product (solution of QM) by stars. All 
atoms are well explained and predictable by QM, itself predictable (normally, 
with comp) by arithmetic. 


Bruno









Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/14/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: meekerdb 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-11, 18:20:16
Subject: Re: Positivism and intelligence


On 8/11/2012 5:56 AM, Roger wrote: 

Positivism seems to rule out native intelligence.
I can't see how knowledge could be created on a blank
slate without intelligence.  

Or for that matter, how the incredibly unnatural structure
of the carbon atom could have been created somehow
somewhere by mere chance.  Fred Hoyle as I recall said
that it was very unlikely that it was created by chance. 

All very unlikely things in my opinion show evidence of
intelligence. 

How likely is the shape of Japan?


In order to extract energy from disorder
as life does shows that, like Maxwell's Demon, 
some intelligence is required to sort things out.

Life extracts energy by increasing disorder.

Brent




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