On 21 Aug 2012, at 13:03, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
I also believe in science. But if you're trying to trash religion
with science, science hasn't a clue nor a tool nor the proper
concepts to even begin with the task. Science does not know
what the meaning of anything is. Period.
I agree. Nevertheless, by using some hypothesis science might explain
why science does not know the meaning of anything.
I agree with what you say, but not as a closure of inquiry. If
something seems impossible, we must favor the simplest hypothesis
which explains the impossibility.
Science is not truth. Science is only a tiny lantern on a big unknown/
ignorance-space.
Only pseudo-scientist "know" the public truth. Serious scientists
suggests only hypotheses, and evidences or refutation. Never "the
truth".
Bruno
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/21/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so
everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Richard Ruquist
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-20, 11:18:57
Subject: Re: divine selection versus natural selection
Roger,
Divine selection and natural selection are sourced,�
however at differing levels of information integration,
in the "universal燙YM monad爏ubspace".
Belief can also be a product of science.
I believe science.
Richard
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Roger <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
�
According to the Bible, belief is a product of faith or trust, and
that trust
does not come from you, it is a gift from God.燱e have nothing to do
with it,
at least that isa what we Lutherns believe.�
�
�
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/20/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so
everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-19, 08:26:10
Subject: Re: The I Ching, a cominatorically complete hyperlinked
semanticfield(mind).
On 19 Aug 2012, at 11:15, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
> The barrier between religion and ordinary life, like the one that
> suppossedly exist between gods and ordinary life is conventiona. If
> it is true that men have an instinct for religion, this is not
> governed by a switch that is put on when in a temple or when it is
> reading esoteric teachings. It is on all the time and in everyone.
I agree. I make a case that all correct machine are theological. The
reason is that such machine, when looking inward (as they can do by
self-reference) can guess that there is something transcending them.
>
> What produces this need of the soul or this innate instinct of the
> human nature?. It may produce organized relgion, but also politics
> and ideology. The brain areas excited by the appearance of the Pope
> in a group of believers are the same that are excited in ecologists
> when Al Gore appears. In the past there were no separation between
> both phenomena. This is an mostly Occidental division.
But it is also a natural division. When machine get theological, from
their perspective it looks like those kind of things are different.
And at some level they are. I think that the conflict is already
reflected in the left brain / right brain difference. Perhaps between
woman and man, east and west, yin and yang.
Take any machine, she will develop those two poles. the "schizophreny
appears only when one pole believes to be more right than the other
pole.
> The cult of personality in socialist countries and the sectarian
> movements (either political or religious) are new editions of the
> fundamentally Unitarian nature of religion and politics.
>
> So, then, gods and adivines have been and will be here forever.
I concur.
> When a name for them is discredited, they appear with new names and
> within new organization.
Absolutely. Some atheists sects can copy some clergy ritual at the
level of the microcospic details, and also the authoritative
arguments. I am thinking to some atheist masonic lodges (not all).
> The modern Global warming alarmism is an episode of adivination by
> makin illegitimate use of science. the Marxism was a scholastic
> school of Masters of Reality that claimed predicitive powers over
> the story of Humanity. The gigantic photographs of Marx Lenin in the
> URSS parliament is an example of religious temple of Atheism. But
> also the small photograph or a loving one in the dormitory carries
> out a religious sense, Specially if it passed away and it was a
> greath influence in our lives. Religion is everywhere and forever.
OK. But it can progress. The authoritative argument in science and
religion is a rest of our mammals reflex. Dogs and wolves needs
leaders, for reason of a long biological past story. It makes sense
for short term goal, like it makes sense to "obey" to orders in the
military situation. But it is really an handicap for the long run.
And that means that authoritative arguments will disappear, in the
long run, or we will disappear, like the dinosaurs. Natural selection
can select good things for the short terms, and throw them away later.
What will not disappear is science and religion. Religion and
spirituality will be more and more prevalent, and play a role of
private goal, and science will be more and more understood as the best
tool to approximate that spiritual goal. I think.
To fight fundamentalism in religion, theology should go back to the
academy (which like democracy is the worst institution except for all
others!).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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