Hi Richard Ruquist 

Physical law is unextended, while physical objects are extended. 

As I understand it, Nature is extended while Supernature is not.

So I could call physical law supernatural.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/22/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Richard Ruquist 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-21, 08:12:42
Subject: Re: Re: divine selection versus natural selection


Roger,
You are mistaken. The universe is based on physical laws despite the existence 
of a supernatural, which I take to be based in the collective set of monads. 


The way in which the monads manifest the physical laws and constants of nature 
is a bonified subject of science, just are the study of COMP is. They may even 
be related except for the multiverse aspect of COMP.
Richard


On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Richard Ruquist 
 
I also believe in science. But if you're trying to trash religion
with science, science hasn't a clue nor a tool nor the proper 
concepts to even begin with the task. Science does not know
what the meaning of anything is. Period.
 
 
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/21/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Richard Ruquist 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-20, 11:18:57
Subject: Re: divine selection versus natural selection


Roger, 


Divine selection and natural selection are sourced, 
however at differing levels of information integration,
in the "universal?YM monad?ubspace".


Belief can also be a product of science.
I believe science.
Richard


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Roger <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal 
According to the Bible, belief is a product of faith or trust, and that trust 
does not come from you, it is a gift from God.?e have nothing to do with it,
at least that isa what we Lutherns believe. 
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/20/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-19, 08:26:10
Subject: Re: The I Ching, a cominatorically complete hyperlinked 
semanticfield(mind).


On 19 Aug 2012, at 11:15, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

> The barrier between religion and ordinary life, like the one that 
> suppossedly exist between gods and ordinary life is conventiona. If 
> it is true that men have an instinct for religion, this is not 
> governed by a switch that is put on when in a temple or when it is 
> reading esoteric teachings. It is on all the time and in everyone.

I agree. I make a case that all correct machine are theological. The 
reason is that such machine, when looking inward (as they can do by 
self-reference) can guess that there is something transcending them.



>
> What produces this need of the soul or this innate instinct of the 
> human nature?. It may produce organized relgion, but also politics 
> and ideology. The brain areas excited by the appearance of the Pope 
> in a group of believers are the same that are excited in ecologists 
> when Al Gore appears. In the past there were no separation between 
> both phenomena. This is an mostly Occidental division.

But it is also a natural division. When machine get theological, from 
their perspective it looks like those kind of things are different. 
And at some level they are. I think that the conflict is already 
reflected in the left brain / right brain difference. Perhaps between 
woman and man, east and west, yin and yang.

Take any machine, she will develop those two poles. the "schizophreny 
appears only when one pole believes to be more right than the other 
pole.



> The cult of personality in socialist countries and the sectarian 
> movements (either political or religious) are new editions of the 
> fundamentally Unitarian nature of religion and politics.
>
> So, then, gods and adivines have been and will be here forever.

I concur.



> When a name for them is discredited, they appear with new names and 
> within new organization.

Absolutely. Some atheists sects can copy some clergy ritual at the 
level of the microcospic details, and also the authoritative 
arguments. I am thinking to some atheist masonic lodges (not all).



> The modern Global warming alarmism is an episode of adivination by 
> makin illegitimate use of science. the Marxism was a scholastic 
> school of Masters of Reality that claimed predicitive powers over 
> the story of Humanity. The gigantic photographs of Marx Lenin in the 
> URSS parliament is an example of religious temple of Atheism. But 
> also the small photograph or a loving one in the dormitory carries 
> out a religious sense, Specially if it passed away and it was a 
> greath influence in our lives. Religion is everywhere and forever.

OK. But it can progress. The authoritative argument in science and 
religion is a rest of our mammals reflex. Dogs and wolves needs 
leaders, for reason of a long biological past story. It makes sense 
for short term goal, like it makes sense to "obey" to orders in the 
military situation. But it is really an handicap for the long run.

And that means that authoritative arguments will disappear, in the 
long run, or we will disappear, like the dinosaurs. Natural selection 
can select good things for the short terms, and throw them away later. 
What will not disappear is science and religion. Religion and 
spirituality will be more and more prevalent, and play a role of 
private goal, and science will be more and more understood as the best 
tool to approximate that spiritual goal. I think.

To fight fundamentalism in religion, theology should go back to the 
academy (which like democracy is the worst institution except for all 
others!).

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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