JohnC
thanks. I expected better from you:

*"...we couldn't know anything until we knew everything*,..."
In general I am missing from your statements *"I THINK"*  as* *
*esasing *the heaviness of the ideas. We think we know a lot, call it:
conventional sciences etc., with a brilliant technology that is *ALMOST * good
(discount the mishaps that occur) and that convivtion is growing with the
millennia. KNOW???

*"...the commonplace use of elementary logic* ..."
is an application of yesterday's standard inventory of human thinking.
Logic also changed as we learned more over time.
"Elementary"???

*"... I recognize life when I see it..." *
you *THINK  *you do. I was asking to elaborate upon those signs you see as
basis of such recognition. Nobody can argue with your unspecified feelings.

John M
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:02 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:55 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > in (my) deterministic agnosticism everything is entailed (var: causal)
>
>
> That belief is not consistent with the observation of real life. If that
> were true we couldn't know anything until we knew everything, and clearly
> we don't know everything but we do know something.
>
>  > I cannot argue that 'everything is causal
>>
>
> Neither can I, but I can argue that everything is causal or everything is
> not causal. For reasons I don't understand this conclusion from the
> commonplace use of elementary logic is surprising and controversial to
> people around here.
>
>  > I have no discerning description of it. Life? I don't know what it is.
>>
>
> But I recognize life when I see it, and in general examples are much more
> important than definitions. I can't define intelligence either, perhaps I'm
> just not intelligent enough to do that, but I know of examples of it and
> examples that seem to lack it.
>
>   John K Clark
>
>
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