John C I usually appreciate your ways... not in the post below. The word 'causal' is ambiguous: in (my) deterministic agnosticism everything is entailed (var: causal) but we know only part of the circumstances of entailment. Even what we know is not so sure 'fits' the infinite complexity BEYOND our 'model' of the world - as we know it. So while I cannot argue that 'everything is causal, I have no discerning description of it. Life? I don't know what it is.
I see the "brick wall" you people run into by not identifying (i.e. being able to) the terms you 'argue' about. Even w/o sense organs. "Living things" ??? included just animals, plants, or also thoughts, effects (that change), relations and who knows what else? I try not to be walled in into *bio nor into sci-fi.* Not even into conventional science figments. Of course I don't have much to go on. That's MY agnostic position (curse or pride) I took for myself after "knowing" everything (ha ha). John M On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:39 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > While computers are causal >> > > Yes. > > > perception is not causal. Nothing that living things do is causal. >> > > Nothing??? So when you're running and perceive a brick wall directly in > front of you getting larger by the second that perception has nothing to do > with you stopping just before you hit the wall. If "nothing" about living > things is causal there would be no point in having sense organs, in fact > there would be no point in having organs of any sort because they wouldn't > operate. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.