On 9/9/2012 4:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 2:58:32 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:

    On 9/9/2012 2:21 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
    On Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:41:37 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King

        Hi Craig,

        ��� Why are we even considering the thoughts of
        paranoids? Are they in control of our daily lives?

    Hi Stephen,

    I agree, I was responding to what Roger said about liberals:

     "ironically and  paradoxically they see the world in terms of race.
    Conservatives attempt to live by facts. I never
    saw racism in what what I wrote until you brought
    the subject up."

    which sounded to me like 'conservatives aren't racist, liberals
    are', which - although conservative thought has some admirable
    virtues, I can say without hesitation that tolerance for racial
    and gender diversity is not one of them. That's why I brought up
    JBS and KKK, to show the absurdity of that claim, since the most
    racist hate groups are known to be political right wing
    extremists and not left wing extremists.

    HI Craig,

        The contest of recrimination is not winnable, but let's try
    for the sake of the discussion.

    Personally I don't know of any left wing extremist groups in this
    country - not that there aren't any but even self-proclaimed
    anarchists seem to stay out of trouble.

        I guess that you have never heard of

    1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_First!

    2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

I had heard of Earth First but not much. Yeah, I think it's fair to call them left wing eco-terrorists. Unfortunately the way they are going about it, using arson and destruction will only serve to discredit their cause and provide a ready excuse for stepping up surveillance and security operations around the world. I don't think that mainstream liberals are aware or support groups like this though generally. Contrary to the overwhelming drift to the right by conservatives, groups like these have not seemed to influence the politics of the mainstream (Democrats can't really even be called liberals, more like fiscal conservatives who are socially moderate).

We could point out bomb-throwers that affiliate themselves to all political brands, but that does this tell us other that insanity is evenly distributed in the human population.

    3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace

What do they do that is bad? Do they threaten innocent people?

The crew of whaling ships might disagree with you, but again, my point is to defend Truth, not any political brand.

Maybe they are over-zealous and unrealistic about ecological priorities but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the global machine they are up against. From what I see it looks like they mainly are concerned with protecting human beings in general: http://yqyq.net/81737-Istoriya_i_dostizheniya_Greenpeace.html

Certainly they are not racists or bullies of innocent people.

Sure, but do they have the "legitimacy" of government agency behind them? I only worry about people that can do things to me or my family or any one with the stamp of authority. For example, if I take money from you by force we call it theft. If the government does the same thing, we call it "taxation"....

    4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society

SDS lasted from 1960-1969, so it hasn't been relevant for almost 50 years. I had a professor who was in SDS. Extremely nice and gentle guy. He said he had a metal plate in his skull from the FBI. His class was on revolutionary movements, talked about SDS, the IWW and labor unions. He seemed to have a mature and reasonable perspective on the 60s

It is good to see that people can recover from the insanity of youth, but not all do. Some remain unrepentant and are actually involved in setting public policy today.

    need more?

sure. my point was about racism though. Are there any groups of white racists who are liberal?

Do we have access to polling data from people that are in this group to tell us what political camp they associate themselves with? I have not seen any.

    In other parts of the world, there are certainly left-wing
    violent extremists but I don't guess that they are racially
    motivated in particular (unless maybe the distribution of wealth
    and power falls along racial lines in their area). What are the
    left wing presences in the US? Farmers markets? Small
    organizations that try to help people get birth control or
    protect people from being poisoned by industry?

        It might be helpful if you laid out for us the definition of
    the terms that you are using. What exactly is left-wing and

        Why can't we just get along?

The left wing are those who see themselves as being the people who want to just get along or, if politically active, oppose those who prevent us from getting along. Left wing means tolerance, which means a certain degree of intolerance of intolerance. That's where it gets dicey.

I'm not sure who the right wing thinks they are. Patriots? Grownups who don't like to see people get anything without paying a price? Not sure.

I frankly don't care what they think of themselves, what matters is who have the official imprimatur to control my life.

    To my mind, while I can understand why liberals would be
    criticized as whiny, weak, and impractical, I think conservatives
    who do not understand why they are criticized as racist,
    anti-intellectual bullies are in deep denial or just sheltered
    from other viewpoints.


        From my point of view we need objectivity.

I'm on board with that.

Tell me why didn't trickle down economics work?

It didn't? Do you know what is meant by that term? Maybe we need to do a lesson in economics focusing on the effects of tax policy. Let's see what the Wiki tells us:
""Trickle-down economics" and "the trickle-down theory" are terms in United States politics to refer to the idea that tax breaks or other economic benefits provided by government to businesses and the wealthy will benefit poorer members of society by improving the economy as a whole.[2] The term has been attributed to humorist Will Rogers, who said during the Great Depression that "money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy."[3] The term is mostly used ironically or as pejorative.[4] Proponents of tax cuts often claim that savings and investment are essential to the economy, and thus less taxes for an income bracket need not harm any other income bracket. It has been referred to as a straw-man argument.[5] Economist George Reisman, a proponent of tax cuts, said the following: "Of course, many people will characterize the line of argument I have just given as the 'trickle-down' theory. There is nothing trickle-down about it. There is only the fact that capital accumulation and economic progress depend on saving and innovation and that these in turn depend on the freedom to make high profits and accumulate great wealth. The only alternative to improvement for all, through economic progress, achieved in this way, is the futile attempt of some men to gain at the expense of others by means of looting and plundering. This, the loot-and-plunder theory, is the alternative advocated by the critics of the misnamed trickle-down theory.""

Why did Bush's 8-year presidency end in such catastrophic failure?

The housing bubble, driven by artificially low interest rates and super lenient lending guidelines, burst.

Why haven't the corps making record profits behaved as the 'job creators' they are supposed to be?

Corporations, like any business, is an organism that adapts to changing environmental conditions or it perishes. What does it size or location really matter? Have I told you about the attempt that my wife and I made to run a small pottery business? The taxes and regulations alone eat every bit of profits that we could possibly make. We lost more than $10,000 on that one... We can't even give away the equipment that we had to buy...




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