Hi Alberto G. Corona 

Religious communion with God and prayer are transcendental so
not computable.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/11/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Alberto G. Corona 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-11, 08:25:34
Subject: Re: victims of faith


every statement about ?hatever, included "reality" is made with mental concepts 
. ?he definition of truth, reality , factual, religion, depend on axioms or 
unproved statements. I presented a computational-evolutionary, falsable, 
exposition of what religion is: ? part of a wider class of?henomenons?f 
"reality construction" and I demonstrated IHMO that no man is free from it.


2012/9/11 Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> that is not fair. 99.99 believed in God or in gods They differ in the
> details. Atheists are a minority.
>
> In a deeper sense, atheists do believe in gods. problably modern
> atheism is one the most basic, new and thus, primitive religions, as I
> will show here:
>
> ? Seeing ?he development of religion where religion is repressed,
> unrepressed atheism develops into personality cult, which is probably
> the most basic religion. personality cult fanatics typically belive
> without any doubt that his leader, for example Stalin or Kim I Sung
> can write hundred of books per year about any scientific matter
>
> In industrialized countries this form of primitive religion appears in
> the rock star cult (bands of cult) in the ideologies, the political
> leadership cult, the cult to famous atheistic scientists or their
> precursors. ?here are articles about the false mitifications, not by
> lay people but by scientist about the life of Darwin for example that
> moves to laugh
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/09/darwin.myths
>
> To summarize, religion is part of human nature. it involves the
> mitification or idealization of people that act as super-egos (in the
> psychoanalitical sense) or as models of behaviour for the believer.
> This is part of any healty socialization. ?he process of sentimental
> attachment of a comunity ever involves the asumption of some myths.
> For sure a nation is a form of primitive religion where the life of
> the founders and their mytical history are part of the beliefs. such
> religion is mixed in a "politeistic" way with other attachment to
> football teams or rock groups that act as minor divinities, and
> usually there is a superior level of civilizational religion, above
> the nation, where the person identifies itself with a broader
> comunity, such is ecologism, christianism, socialism where Al Gore,
> Christ or Marx act as divinities.
>
> The fact that these myths are based on real, historical people or in
> too long dead people with no guaranteed ?istoricity does not matter.
> The only difference is that new religions have new myths and due to
> the fact that they have no history, they conform to the most pure form
> of religion, where the psychological process of mythopoiesis is
> observable in action today.
>
> ?f the mytification goes from generation to generation (if the faith
> is sucessful) then the mytified historical figures become pure myths
> so they become gods.
>
> The most pure form of belief is the one where the believer does not
> know that he believe. The knowledge of belief is a sophisticated or
> civlized way of belief, that only exist where civilizatons are mixed.
> We all believe things that are idealizations, falsifications or
> mytifications. But not all myths are equal and not all myths have to
> be false. There is a social capital involved in every belief: A myth
> explains the reality in some way, but also is inherently good if it
> make people act in common for common goals that are good for all. This
> is independent from the objective truth. By intuition men can gasp how
> good a myth is for him and for his fellows (that may be explained by a
> "social capital instinct", from which the mythopoiesis, the production
> of myths feed from).
>
> Good and Truthful become synonyms in the mind of the man that seek a
> menaning, a reason to live with others. And the man that don? seek
> meaning, either is in crisis or someone else has chosen his myhths to
> believe for him time ago.


Let me be specific about what I dispute. I dispute the factual claims
made by religions. For example:

- Athena sprang fully formed from the head of Zeus when Hephaestus
struck it with an ax to relieve a headache;
- Yahweh dictated the ten commandments to Moses;
- Ganesha is an elephant headed god who promotes good luck;
- You go to Heaven when you die if you accept that Jesus is God and
repent your sins.

If you remove the factual claims then you are left with statements
that may be inspiring, poetic, vacuous or nonsensical, but not true or
false. For example:

- Athena sprang from Zeus' head because in mythology she represents wisdom;
- The ten commandments are a good basis for morality;
- Worshiping Ganesha gives Hindus comfort and hope;
- Jesus taught the importance of forgiveness.



--
Stathis Papaioannou

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