On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:41:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > Intelligence is by (my) definition an autonomous function, > so over-layers are not only forbidden, they are not needed. >
What is God if not an over-layer of intelligence? > But God does have to follow laws he already created. > If you jump off of a building you will fall to your death. > Why would he create laws that he is powerless to change? > > I'm missing a possible problem there. > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/11/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:01:52 > *Subject:* Re: If I ever doubt that there is a God, > > > > On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:29:00 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Bruno Marchal >> >> If I ever doubt that there is a God, >> the regularity of Newton's physics or >> the microscopic structure of a snowflake >> dispels such doubt. >> >> These show design. >> Design cannot be made randomly. >> So there must be some intelligence interweaved in Nature. >> I call that God. >> >> That nature has structure and laws, to me indicates >> that there must be some superintelligence at work. >> > > Wouldn't the superintelligence also have to be highly structured ans > lawful? Wouldn't those laws also suggest a meta-superintelligence, and so > on? > > Why not just let the fact that we can make sense of a universe of sensible > sensations be exactly that. > > >> >> >> >> >> Roger Clough, [email protected] >> 9/11/2012 >> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >> so that everything could function." >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> *From:* Bruno Marchal >> *Receiver:* everything-list >> *Time:* 2012-09-10, 13:17:52 >> *Subject:* Re: The poverty of computers >> >> Roger, >> >> I agree with John here. Except that his point is more agnostic than >> atheist. >> >> A better question to John would be: explain where consciousness and >> universes come from, or what is your big picture. John is mute on this, but >> his stucking on step 3 illustrates that he might be a religious believer in >> a material universe, or in physicalism. Perhaps. >> >> To be clear on atheism, I use modal logic (informally). if Bx means "I >> believe in x", and if g means (god exists) >> >> A believer is characterized by Bg >> An atheist by B ~g >> An agnostic by ~Bg & ~B~g >> >> But you can replace g by m (primitive matter), and be atheist with >> respect of matter, etc. >> >> Someone who say that he does not believe in God, usually take for granted >> other sort of God, that is they make a science, like physics, which is >> irreproachable by itself, into an explanation of everything, which is just >> another religion or pseudo religion, if not assumed clearly. >> >> I advocate that we can do theology as seriously as physics by making >> clear the assumptions. Like with comp which appears to be closer to Bg than >> to Bm. But g might be itself no more than arithmetical truth, or even a >> tiny part of it. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> On 10 Sep 2012, at 18:27, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 Roger Clough <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > If you are an atheist, prove that God does not exist. If you can't, >>> you are a hypocrite in attacking those that do believe that God exists. You >>> haven't a leg to stand on. >>> >> >> A fool disbelieves only in the things he can prove not to exist, the wise >> man also disbelieves in things that are silly. A china teapot orbiting the >> planet Uranus is silly, and so is God. >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/GJV6yFjTMoAJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/6jOnZH0QAEAJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
