Hi Bruno Marchal Any creator has to be greater than his creations.
Roger Clough, [email protected] 9/12/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-11, 14:55:35 Subject: Re: If I ever doubt that there is a God, On 11 Sep 2012, at 15:29, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Roger Clough <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Intelligence is by (my) definition an autonomous function, >> so over-layers are not only forbidden, they are not needed. >> >> But God does have to follow laws he already created. >> If you jump off of a building you will fall to your death. >> >> I'm missing a possible problem there. > > You say that order in the universe is evidence of an intelligent > designer but you don't say that order in the intelligent designer is > evidence of a super-intelligent designer who designed him. If you say > the designer was not himself designed then why not also say the > universe was not itself designed? > It is a good point. Craig made a similar one. You need God being conceptually simpler than its creation, to get something looking like an explanation. I think this is what has motivated Plotinus to put the ONE (described mainly as the SIMPLE by Plotinus) above the NOUS, which is already the MANY, very rich intelligible worlds of the ideas. With comp this is captured by the difference between the factual simple truth, like Ex( s(0)+x = s(s(s(0))) ), and the intelligible truth, which in arithmetic will concerned provability predicate by machine, using G?el's arithmetical predicate beweisbar(x). The simple "cause" is the number together with their additive and multiplicative laws, the many is the complex digital machine appearing from those laws, and their possible histories and coupling with other universal machines. Bruno > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
