Hi Bruno Marchal 

Any creator has to be greater than his creations.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/12/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-11, 14:55:35
Subject: Re: If I ever doubt that there is a God,


On 11 Sep 2012, at 15:29, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> Intelligence is by (my) definition an autonomous function,
>> so over-layers are not only forbidden, they are not needed.
>>
>> But God does have to follow laws he already created.
>> If you jump off of a building you will fall to your death.
>>
>> I'm missing a possible problem there.
>
> You say that order in the universe is evidence of an intelligent
> designer but you don't say that order in the intelligent designer is
> evidence of a super-intelligent designer who designed him. If you say
> the designer was not himself designed then why not also say the
> universe was not itself designed?
>

It is a good point. Craig made a similar one. You need God being 
conceptually simpler than its creation, to get something looking like 
an explanation.

I think this is what has motivated Plotinus to put the ONE (described 
mainly as the SIMPLE by Plotinus) above the NOUS, which is already the 
MANY, very rich intelligible worlds of the ideas.

With comp this is captured by the difference between the factual 
simple truth, like Ex( s(0)+x = s(s(s(0))) ), and the intelligible 
truth, which in arithmetic will concerned provability predicate by 
machine, using G?el's arithmetical predicate beweisbar(x). The simple 
"cause" is the number together with their additive and multiplicative 
laws, the many is the complex digital machine appearing from those 
laws, and their possible histories and coupling with other universal 
machines.

Bruno


>
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> Stathis Papaioannou
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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