Hi Richard Ruquist The Psalms are full of doubt and hope for an answer.
Obviously doubt is a component of faith. Roger Clough, [email protected] 9/13/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-12, 15:17:08 Subject: Re: Why we debate religion: two completely different types of truth. May not be of interest, but the Reform branch on Judaism has a prayer for "Doubt" in their High Holiday services. That may be one reason why some have become such good scientists. Richard On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 09 Sep 2012, at 13:50, Roger Clough wrote: > > > Why we debate religion: two completely different and frequently > confused types of truth. > > There are two completely different types of truth. > > The first is rational or objective or public truth, discussed > in philosophies of "truth" and logic. > > The second is truth known only privately or subjectively > This is the kind of truth that police must rely on when a > dead body needs identifying. There is an immediate > certainty of identity that the surviving relative knows inside, > but only he can be sure of that. > > This is also a part of the show-and-tell aspect of courtroom trials. > The jury must decide on the guilt of the defendant v partly > logiocally, but to a great extent from the show and tell of evidence. > > Objective truth is shareable but not determined personally, > and may be debsatable by philsophers. > > Subjective truth is not shareable because it is private and personal. > But to many (including me) it is the most certain form of truth, > A mother will always be certain that it is or is not her son lying on > the table in the morgue. And in another context, one cannot argue > on matters of taste. > > This difference in forms of truth is where all of our religious debates > come from. Religious truth is only certain to a an individual > and cannot be shared. > > > I mainly agree. But then why coming with factual assertion, about a Jesus > guy. I can accept the parabolas, but I can't take a witnessing of 500 > persons, in the writing of a quite biased guy (Paul), from a reasonable > perspective, as an argument, and it all make dubious any assertion you can > add. > > Your theory above is better, though, and close to the universal machine's > own theory, actually. > > Science is only a modest and interrogative inquiry. It is rooted in the > doubt, and ask only question. Theories have all interrogation mark. > It is the separation between science and theology that makes people > believing that science = truth, when the truth is that science = doubt, but > with a willingness to make the assumptions as clear as it is needed to be > sharable, and questioned. > > You say "Religious truth is only certain too an individual and cannot be > shared", but note that is the case also for consciousness, and all > hallucinated states. If you cannot share, don't try, perhaps. > > As a computer scientist, and logician, I study what ideally correct machine > can discover about themselves and that they cannot share, or even express, > from different person points of view. Very small machines already provide > quite non trivial observations on that. Books exists on the subject (Boolos, > Smorynski, Smullyan, ...). > > Bruno > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
