On 9/14/2012 8:40 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal

IMHO in Platonia (the Eternal) all logical statements must always
be either true or false forever. However, in this everyday world, where time
is a factor, such necessary logical statements become contingent,
and may only sometimes be true. And possibly not everywhere.

The I Ching provides a numerical way of combining, separating,
and systematically manipulating qualitative situations, since
these have visually been associated to trigrams of binary numbers.

For example 111 or all yang lines is male and yang-ish.
000 is female and having softer heavier female qualitites.
Then combining and reading down from left to right, 000000 is female
111111 is male.  111000 or male over female is stagnation
  while 000111 with female over male, is bliss. Which is what
womens' lib teaches.

There's so much more to such manipulations that it would take a book to
show them all.
Dear Roger,

    On this claim I agree with you 100%.



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/14/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-14, 03:38:43
Subject: Re: Simple proof that our intelligence transcends that of computers


On 30 Aug 2012, at 04:40, Terren Suydam wrote:

hmmm, my interpretation is that in platonia, all computations, all the
potential infinities of computations, have the same ontological
status. Meaning, there's nothing meaningful that can be said with
regard to any particular state of the UD - one can imagine that all
computations have been performed in a timeless way.
OK. And not only they all exist, (in the same sense as all prime
numbers exist), but they all exist with a particular weighted
redundancy, independent of the choice of the U in the UD.




If so, it follows
that the state that corresponds to my mind at this moment has an
infinite number of instantiations in the UD (regardless of some
arbitrary "current" state of the UD). In fact this is the only way I
can make sense of the reversal, where physics emerges from "the
infinite computations going through my state".
That's correct.



Otherwise, I think the
physics that emerges would depend in a contigent way on the
particulars of how the UD unfolds.
Yes.


Whether the infinities involved with my current state are of the same
ordinality as the infinitie of all computations, I'm not sure. But I
think if it was a "lesser" infinity, so that the probability of my
state being instantiated did approach zero in the limit, then my
interpretation above would imply that the probability of my existence
is actually zero. Which is a contradiction.
This does not necessarily follows. We can be relatively rare. To
exists more than an instant, we need only to have enough normal
computations going through or state, but the initial state can be
"absolutely" rare. The same might be true for the origin of life.
Logically, as I am agnostic on this, to be sure.

Bruno




Terren

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:41 PM, meekerdb
wrote:
But there are no infinities at any give state - only potential
infinities.
Of course that also implies that "you" are never complete, since at
any
given state in the UD there still remain infinitely many
computations that
will, in later steps, go through the states instantiating "you".

Brent


On 8/29/2012 9:04 AM, Terren Suydam wrote:
It may not even be zero in the limit, since there's an infinity of
computations that generate my state. I suppose it comes down to the
ordinality of the infinities involved.

Terren

Not zero, only zero in the limit of completing the infinite
computations.
So
at any stage short the infinite completion the probability of
"you" is
very
small, but non-zero. But we already knew that.

Brent

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