On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:29:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
> Hi Craig Weinberg
> The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God
> and our neighbor.
That's like thinking that if a person does drugs with you they can't be a
cop. Either the devil has free will, in which case I would think him very
likely to throw in just such messages to deceive us, or he has no free will
in which case he is purely the agent of God, and God is the deceiver
pretending not to also be the devil.
Most people who have psychotic episodes that end in some horrific act like
drowning their children are acting on the insistence of what claims to be
God. If the devil wrote a book that said 'Ahh I'm the devil, read this book
and hate God and you will be rewarded' do you think that it would be very
effective? Who is better to corrupt, some degenerate in prison or a priest
who is trusted to be alone with children?
> My own take on Jesus' death is that the devil attacks everything
> he hates: beauty, goodness, youth, ... . These will either go to
> heaven or hell. God's justice, being all-pervasive,
> has to be to make up in the next world the sorrows of this one.
It's all so silly. Wouldn't the devil get tired of hating the things that
by definition are lovely? How does God get off the hook for creating this
monster? It's beyond absurd. It's fine as a metaphor, because yes, there
are these phenomenological appetites and counter-appetities which we are
obliged to participate in, and which have supra-personal significance, but
really all of these interpretations are cartoons loosely based on parts of
the Bible, which in itself is a huge mess of disputed versions and
questionable translations. It's like a 'Best Of' album for Bronze Age
philosophy and folk history.
> Now the Bible says that whoever is least on earth will be the
> highest in Heaven. So Jesus had to die the most horrible
> ignominious death,
I don't even get that part. Millions of people die more horrible and
ignominious deaths than Jesus. Jesus died the most celebrated and historic
death in all of history (if he even existed historically). He died in
physical pain, sure, so what? He died with the certainty that he is
immortal and the Son of God. He died being able to forgive his torturers.
That is a beautiful death compared to being torn apart after decades in
some rape dungeon somewhere. Wasting away for years with chronic
suffering... What is objectively so special about being unjustly crucified?
What way could he have died that would have been more heroic? Peacefully in
his sleep at the age of 20,000?
I'm only continuing with this because you seem up for it. I don't want to
offend anyone, I'm just expressing why it doesn't make any sense to me.
> that even being the death of God's only
> son, in order to be highest in heaven. This happened with
> his resurrection.
It's a nice story that appeals to our moral logic of justice, but there is
really no difference between that and a hundred other mythologies. That's
how myths work - something had to happen because it appeals to the sense of
balance and reciprocation. All of the world's mythology is like one big
cautionary tale of quid pro quo.
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Craig Weinberg
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-09-19, 17:11:45
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
> Hi Richard Ruquist
> Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven,
> only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.
> What kind of a sacrifice is that? "I'm going to do you the biggest favor
> you can imagine, but if you don't believe in it, then my favor is worthless
> and makes anything good that you have ever done in your life a complete
> waste of time".
> If I were Satan, I would write the Bible exactly as it is, full of
> horrific promises and threats that can be interpreted in many ways. It's
> pretty much like dropping candy colored hand grenades onto a school
> playground. The grenades would say "if anyone tries to take this away from
> you, then they deserve whatever happens to them".
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